Ange in or out?

[DeanoAustin]

I get that
But Enic are now spending and have done so for the last 2/3 seasons
The issue is it’s catch up and a rebuild
So it takes time to do just that
Potentially this summer there will be legacy players from Poch era and none from Jose’s
That’s a big change

That may be so. We will see. I'm still hopeful we will see a benefit in the players we're able to bring in once the money we earn from the stadium starts trickling in. If it doesn't, then I agree, and Enic can fudge off.

My honest view is ENIC have to change their approach to wages to get better players. We’re consistently bottom of the league for the percentage of revenue we spend on wages. That has to change or it becomes hard for us to break the ceiling.

In my view, that’s a very deliberate strategy from Levy which makes great business sense. He pays for performance - if the club does well, you do well. However, it won’t attract the calibre of player we need because no top player is risking his wages on 10 other lads when he can get the money guaranteed elsewhere.

Transfer spend is not the issue. Levy’s put his hand in his pocket in recent years. Wages are the issue IMO.

 

[Modric THFC]

Nothing has changed since Thursday

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don’t disagree with you funnily enough. Watched back some of the goals on MOTD and how we defend is kamikaze which I’ve said from pretty much the day Ange walked into the club. But those stats are making it seem like we’re the worst team defensively in the league. The three months before don’t support that and in December we’ve been playing without our keeper, 3 CBs and our left back which is skewing the numbers. The only first choice defender we have is the lad who can’t defend.

By the way, majority of people in the ground today stayed behind the team which was good to see.

We’re definitely up there with being one of the most disorganised teams defensively in the league. I’ve said many times I don’t think it matters who we play in defence, we will always concede opportunities and goals. Ange even said he’s not trying to win 1-0. We look great going forward there’s no debate about it but it leaves us exposed at the other end. As long as Ange is in charge, I think we will likely score 60-70 goals and also concede 40-50 goals every season. The most comparable semi recent example I can think of is Brendan Rodgers in terms of goals for and against. It’s not going to be sustainable in terms of a title challenge. It might win us a cup which I’d be delighted with this season but there needs to be progression in league finishes.

 

[Modric THFC]

Did you not see the stats I posted before? 20th since December in;

Goals conceded
Shots faced againsf
Shots faced on target
XG goals against
Big chances faced

Since December?
We are still in December ffs.
The only reason for someone to use a 4 game sample size 17 games into the season is to cherry pick stats

 

[Bedfordspurs]

My honest view is ENIC have to change their approach to wages to get better players. We’re consistently bottom of the league for the percentage of revenue we spend on wages. That has to change or it becomes hard for us to break the ceiling.

In my view, that’s a very deliberate strategy from Levy which makes great business sense. He pays for performance - if the club does well, you do well. However, it won’t attract the calibre of player we need because no top player is risking his wages on 10 other lads when he can get the money guaranteed elsewhere.

Transfer spend is not the issue. Levy’s put his hand in his pocket in recent years. Wages are the issue IMO.

Wages are paid on performance
The players don’t get the bonuses without earning them
But…
We’re one of the worlds highest wage payers as I’ve shown before
I think there are only 9 teams who pay more than us IIRC and arsenal would have bumped us down now so we’re maybe 10th
We can and will pay wages IMO. The issue is we ain’t winning anything to dangle that carrot to compete with others

 

[DeanoAustin]

Wages are paid on performance
The players don’t get the bonuses without earning them
But…
We’re one of the worlds highest wage payers as I’ve shown before
I think there are only 9 teams who pay more than us IIRC and arsenal would have bumped us down now so we’re maybe 10th
We can and will pay wages IMO. The issue is we ain’t winning anything to dangle that carrot to compete with others

Look at the wages to revenue %. Ours is always the lowest. The only time we paid higher than Woolwich, in absolute terms, was when we got CL and they didn’t and our revenue was well ahead of theirs. Percentage wise, we still paid less than them.

It’s a deliberate strategy by Levy. By all accounts he tries to make as much as possible bonus related which makes sure we don’t pay huge amounts in years where we don’t get CL or Europe. It’s a brilliant business strategy, it makes us attractive to prospective investors but it won’t win you football competitions.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Since December?
We are still in December ffs.
The only reason for someone to use a 4 game sample size 17 games into the season is to cherry pick stats

The stats were used to highlight how dogmatic Ange is being. I’ve seen numerous posters highlighting the number of injuries we have and the lack of options, especially at CB. By saying that you’re making my case for me, we have a injuries up the wazoo with inexperienced defenders but Ange doesn’t do anything to give them protection, he still sends the full backs bombing forward, we play out from the back like it’s a religion.

 

[Raziel]

We’re definitely up there with being one of the most disorganised teams defensively in the league. I’ve said many times I don’t think it matters who we play in defence, we will always concede opportunities and goals. Ange even said he’s not trying to win 1-0. We look great going forward there’s no debate about it but it leaves us exposed at the other end. As long as Ange is in charge, I think we will likely score 60-70 goals and also concede 40-50 goals every season. The most comparable semi recent example I can think of is Brendan Rodgers in terms of goals for and against. It’s not going to be sustainable in terms of a title challenge. It might win us a cup which I’d be delighted with this season but there needs to be progression in league finishes.

He's Bielsa, the comparisons are endless, extremely high peaks, can shock a league for a period and injuries/overplaying inevitably bring disaster.

Bielsa gave Leeds one of their best seasons in decades, 2nd season in PL, had injuries, refused to adjust refused to compromise in any way and they got battered ..

 

[90291Spur]

We may not like it, but so much truth here.

Ange Postecoglou’s unserious Spurs exposed by serious Liverpool | Jonathan Liew

Spurs can win spectacularly and are a lot of fun but they could have had Arne Slot in 2023 and instead have the same pot of relaunched stasis

www.theguardian.com

Some truth wrapped up in snark and insults.

 

[glasgowspur]

They slowed down when they'd already smashed us and let us have the ball more and we are a very good attacking team, being one of the top scorers in the division.

Including at 2-0 when they got caught trying to play the ball out?

 

[glasgowspur]

I actually agree with most of this - yet, we're the 7th richest club in the world (or thereabout) with arguably the best stadium in the world. If we're not competing to be the very best - we should be. There's no excuse for not aiming to win the league, or the Champions League for that matter. What's the point if you don't, when we're clearly set up for it? Having said that, things take time - it's just that we've been in a constant painful rebuild ever since Poch left. I know I sound entitled saying this, I'm not demanding we win the league every year, but we should damn well aim to do so, in my opinion.

"It's better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. At Spurs we set our sights very high, so that even failure will have in it an echo of glory.”

We maybe the seventh richest club in the world, but the gulf between us and the five is enormous.
City, Chelsea, Real, bayern and utd can all blow us out the water when it comes to transfers.

 

[SkipRat]

It's the inexperience across the board:
- Ange highest level is SPL as you say.

Below him his coaching staff are:
- Matt Wells - Senior assistant - 36 years old
- Mile Jedinak - Assistant - 40 years old
- Ryan Mason - Assistant - 33 years old
- Nick Montgomery - Asisstant - 43 years old
- Sergio Raimundo - Assistant - 40 years old
- Rob Burch - GK coach - 41 years old
- Michael Cooper - Senior fitness coach - 35 years old
- John Thrower - fitness coach - 31 years old
- Jordan Slack - fitness coach - 29 years old
- Matt Bickley - fitness coach - 34 years old

And other than one or two snippets, none of them have experience of coaching in the first team in a top European league.

Funny, I get laughed at when I point out the quality of coaching staff.

 

[SkipRat]

We maybe the seventh richest club in the world, but the gulf between us and the five is enormous.
City, Chelsea, Real, bayern and utd can all blow us out the water when it comes to transfers.

Doesn't need to be.

With a good balance between investing in world class players and youth development and ivestment, we don't need insane amounts of money to compete.

We need a good manage, akin to Poch, time, and the right players for the club. We don;t need a team of worldies, but we need the right worldies to level the team and that may mean big wages and and hefty outlay.

We have to approach things differntly to them, it doesn't can;t compete with them though. But rather than Levy lucking out with Poch, we should be finding the Poch's of the world delibertely.

 

[thfcsteff]

Rightly so. That's the only time i thought we looked bad enough to be relegated. Players saying in the media that it was jols team that won the cup.

No, Finney means Levy binned off the last person to regularly get us Champions League football; he means sacking Pochettino.

 

[thfcsteff]

You can play well and still concede goals. But the second, third and fifth are the most concerning. It’s not a fluke when we have faced more shots than any other team. You can say that’s people not doing their jobs, but it’s also far more likely to be how we setup but some refuse to see it. Some of the comments here tonight are bordering on deluded. Constantly highlighting the fact that Liverpool had rotated players in midweek, saying the fans are toxic and aren’t behind the manager. To me, it comes across that people are in denial.

OK. But tell me this. Are there facts in there? Did Liverpool rotate 8 players from midweek? I'll add our injuries. Are our injuries a fact? You can only offer me a hypothesis on why we've faced more shots than any other team?

 

[SkipRat]

OK. But tell me this. Are there facts in there? Did Liverpool rotate 8 players from midweek? I'll add our injuries. Are our injuries a fact? You can only offer me a hypothesis on why we've faced more shots than any other team?

So we could have rotated players.

And the players could have handled playing two games in a row. The reason the fatigue built up was due to poor team management over the several months.

Okay Djed couldn't be on the EUFA list, but he could still play PL games, with Porro playing in Europe until that mess up was sorted out.

We rushed back Romero and VdV, and how did that work out?

It's just excuses and even when we didn't have an injury list, we was still inconsistent, struggling to pass the ball more than three time in a row without giving it away.

It's just excuses.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Is he still here.

 

[Mrs Vert]

We wanted slot
He wanted to come
They wanted £15m which we wouldn’t pay
I posted on here last year before Ange that I knew some Dutch guys who were in coaching over there who told em before it was in the press (not the release fee by the way)
He is a great coach and has done so well so far

I don't think he would have succeeded here as per reasons listed under all previous managers

 

[Mrs Vert]

OK. But tell me this. Are there facts in there? Did Liverpool rotate 8 players from midweek? I'll add our injuries. Are our injuries a fact? You can only offer me a hypothesis on why we've faced more shots than any other team?

Bit we face a lot of shots from anyone even when we had our defense.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It’s irrelevant who he supports; many of the points he makes are valid.

It’s obvious stuff and not particularly deep. At 1-2 and almost half time of course in hindsight everyone thinks ‘if only we’d keep it tight for a couple of minutes’ then regrouped. So easy to say in hindsight. Spence should have stayed where he was. Dragusin should have won the header. Genius levels of analysis sprinkled with insults to our club from a goon: “Radu Dragusin – who here looked more like a boy band member playing centre-half in a Soccer Aid game” He’s 22 and backup, what do you expect?

We lost to Liverpool who are the best team in the land and in Europe atm, with half of our team out and the existing players stretched. The rest is just a bunch of whinging.