4-4-2

[milo]

I see that calls for 4-4-2 keep getting raised in other threads. To save them all having the same discussions, I thought I'd give them one place to go.

To kick things off, a question.

Is anyone aware of any evidence that shows teams playing 4-4-2 create more chances or score more goals?

 

[Modric THFC]

Depends how you play it.
442 is just a formation.

For instance we played a defensive 442 against Arsenal with Chadli behind Adebayor upfront and the other 8 players getting behind the ball.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Why not 2-3-5, if we are talking about obsolete formations?

Other than Lennon, I don't think there's one player in our squad who is suited to it or has any real experience of playing it.

It's just the 'immigration'-style call-to-arms of reactionaries

 

[spurspinter1]

Maybe I have a very simple footballing brain but going back to the days when we were definitely playing 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with Rafa if you want to be pedantic about it, I'd look at the players on the teamsheet and see precisely what they were meant to be doing

ie A CM pairing that complimented each other - One who could tackle and one who could pass

Two wide players, either both fast players aiming to get a cross in or one side more of a playmaker type normally on the inverted side

One striker who'd make sure to hold the ball up, be in the box to seek out chances and one attacking midfielder/supporting striker to link play, drop a bit deeper and but make runs in to the box

Simpler days!

Nowadays I tend to look at the CM pairing, without really being sure what their strengths are, I look at the three floating players and wonder where the **** they're meant to be, and judging by the massive spectrum of opinion here on where a players best position is it seems a lot of people are confused as well on that, and I see one striker that floats about all over the place without getting involved massively.

I don't think we have the players for a 4-4-2 these days as we don't have a Bale or a Lennon that has any attacking threat anymore but I'm just not quite sure what we're trying to do at the moment..

 

[Gutter Boy]

Is anyone aware of any evidence that shows teams playing 4-4-2 create more chances or score more goals?

It's surely not that helpful to compare stats from the 80s and 90s with the present day, as defences are generally better organised now.

 

[Yiddo]

4-3-1-2 is the way forward. Pretty sure Eriksen said in an interview last season that deep CM was his favourite position.

Capoue
Dembele Eriksen

Lamela

Kane Soldado​

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

How about pass and move, look for space, mark plays making attacking moves. All these systems give players the excuse of the system not working rather than them playing badly or without any intelligence.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Lamela as Kaka *fap* *fap*

I really wouldn't mind seeing 442 with a front six of:

Lennon__Capoue__Mason__Townsend

_______Kane________Soldado______

 

[milo]

It's surely not that helpful to compare stats from the 80s and 90s with the present day, as defences are generally better organised now.

Absolutely. I meant contemporary evidence. Formations develop to exploit and/or restrict space on the pitch, an example from yesteryear would tell us little because of the formations that they were playing against would be different and the space to exploit would be different.

 

[spurspinter1]

4-3-1-2 is the way forward. Pretty sure Eriksen said in an interview last season that deep CM was his favourite position.

Capoue
Dembele Eriksen

Lamela

Kane Soldado​

I think our lack of pace/width would be worsened by that kind of approach, and being that Kane seems to have most influence dropping deep behind the striker Lamela would be in the way a bit...

 

[mattls]

I think our lack of pace/width would be worsened by that kind of approach, and being that Kane seems to have most influence dropping deep behind the striker Lamela would be in the way a bit...

I think if you look at the last two seasons we've lost alot more games at WHL that we had done previously, its no coincidence that it's partly due to the formation. Under AVB we played one upfront and then under Poch we are now doing the same, the players behind the 9 downt seem to get close enough. We bearly scored many under AVB at WHL and we're not scoring many under Poch who both play a slow build up style, whereas in previous seasons we would often have the game won early on under 'arry playing a more traditional 4-4-2, sometimes 4-4-1-1 with Rafa behind Crouch and playing quick and incisively.

On thursday night Harry Kane played very close to Ade and the system seemed to work much better. On sunday it was Eriksen and Lamela trying to support Ade and i dont think it worked so well. We should have kept Kane in the side and i think we would have scored the goals in the first half to put the game to bed.

This was defo a mistake from Poch.

 

[africanspurs]

wonky

 

[milo]

I think if you look at the last two seasons we've lost alot more games at WHL that we had done previously, its no coincidence that it's partly due to the formation. Under AVB we played one upfront and then under Poch we are now doing the same, the players behind the 9 downt seem to get close enough. We bearly scored many under AVB at WHL and we're not scoring many under Poch who both play a slow build up style, whereas in previous seasons we would often have the game won early on under 'arry playing a more traditional 4-4-2, sometimes 4-4-1-1 with Rafa behind Crouch and playing quick and incisively.

On thursday night Harry Kane played very close to Ade and the system seemed to work much better. On sunday it was Eriksen and Lamela trying to support Ade and i dont think it worked so well. We should have kept Kane in the side and i think we would have scored the goals in the first half to put the game to bed.

This was defo a mistake from Poch.

Harry's 4-4-1-1 often looked very like 4-2-3-1. At its best there was plenty of interchanging between Lennon, VdV and Bale.

I agree that there was an issue with a lack of support for the striker in AVB's second season. Losing Dempsey and Bale really left us without a player who could do this.

This season Chadli has been the player who has got closest and overlapped the best. I agree that Kane can also do this and it will be interesting to see how he steps up when given the chance but I do not think that this has to mean a change in formation.

 

[milo]

wonky

There's no need to call mattls names [-X

 

[SpurSF]

Lamela as Kaka *fap* *fap*

I really wouldn't mind seeing 442 with a front six of:

Lennon__Capoue__Mason__Townsend

_______Kane________Soldado______

Ugh, please GHod no. Lennon and Townsend just aren't productive enough to be our key creative players. Last year, Lennon had three assists in 2,200 minutes and Townsend had ZERO in 1,200 minutes. Combined they had the same number of assists as Chadli last year, who was supposedly a massive flop. I know assists aren't everything, but those players simply don't strike any fear in opposing defenses and they don't get near to scoring enough goals.

I don't have an issue with 4-4-2 if we had the players to do it, but I don't think we do. I like the formation we are using now 4-2-3-1, but I'm not quite sure we've totally adapted to Poch's pressing style. I'd really like to see us stick with the guys we have, whilst sprinkling Kane and Townsend into the first team sporadically. I'd also like to see Townsend playing more centrally or out left, beacuse he's so predictable playing on the right. Mason deserves to keep the shirt, and I'd love to see him getting forward as often as possible as the sort of late runner on counter attacks that is so difficult to pick up.

We do have a problem with Eriksen and Lamela, however, because I think both are so much more effective when they are playing more centrally. The idea of Eriksen as a deeper midfielder (in the Mason role) is intriguing, but his goals are too important for our squad to drop him back, IMO.

I'd like to see either this...

-------Capoue-----Mason-----------
Lamela----Eriksen--------Chadli
----------Soldado----------------

or

----Capoue-----Eriksen--------
Chadli----Lamela-----Kane
----------Soldado----------

If we HAD to play a 4-4-2, I'd get Kane as one of the two, and play something like this, but it feels really wonky.

Lamela--Eriksen--Capoue---Townsend
------------Kane-----------------
-----------Soldado------------------

 

[milo]

If we HAD to play a 4-4-2, I'd get Kane as one of the two, and play something like this, but it feels really wonky.

Lamela--Eriksen--Capoue---Townsend
------------Kane-----------------
-----------Soldado------------------

Any half competent side would run that team ragged.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's surely not that helpful to compare stats from the 80s and 90s with the present day, as defences are generally better organised now.

That's something I I can't dance with more

Defences now are arguably the worse I've ever seen in the league. The lack of organisation and the need for defenders to have an attacking role has lead to some really bad players getting high profile roles

Go back just 10 years and there were some outstanding centre backs and full backs... Now there are very few and teams have to be more organised and arguably negative to compensate

All formations work if the players are right for them and their used in the right way

I'm a massive 3-5-2 fan and I could see that working for us if the players actually worked hard enough on the pitch

Likewise the 4-4-2 wonky that Affy keeps on advocating for me now would be the best way to get a balance with the players we have

Lennon/Lamella or anyone half decent. Mason. Capoue or Stambouli. Eriksen


Kane

Soldado

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

As Gary Neville once said, anything but 442.

When a team is playing 442 and loses, it's 442s fault. When a team plays 442 and wins they weren't actually playing 442 because they were playing a false number 9, inverted wingers or some other trendy thing that makes it 'more of a 433 really'

In reality, modern football is so fluid that formations are almost redundant other than giving the players somewhere to stand at kick off.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

As Gary Neville once said, anything but 442.

When a team is playing 442 and loses, it's 442s fault. When a team plays 442 and wins they weren't actually playing 442 because they were playing a false number 9, inverted wingers or some other trendy thing that makes it 'more of a 433 really'

In reality, modern football is so fluid that formations are almost redundant other than giving the players somewhere to stand at kick off.

Something we are awful at as proven on Sunday for 7 seconds for their first goal

 

[the dza]

That's something I I can't dance with more

Defences now are arguably the worse I've ever seen in the league. The lack of organisation and the need for defenders to have an attacking role has lead to some really bad players getting high profile roles

Go back just 10 years and there were some outstanding centre backs and full backs... Now there are very few and teams have to be more organised and arguably negative to compensate

All formations work if the players are right for them and their used in the right way

I'm a massive 3-5-2 fan and I could see that working for us if the players actually worked hard enough on the pitch

Likewise the 4-4-2 wonky that Affy keeps on advocating for me now would be the best way to get a balance with the players we have

Lennon/Lamella or anyone half decent. Mason. Capoue or Stambouli. Eriksen


Kane

Soldado

Got to be Chadli on the right, in that lineup. I understand why we want to persist with Lamela and hope that he comes good, but Chadli, Kane and Eriksen all deserve to be in the team ahead of him, as they all have goals in them. Lamela never looks like threatening the goal in any league game that I can remember. I want him to do well, but I want the team to do well first and foremost.