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Lucas Bergvall

I don't think Bergvall looked disappointed or unenthused. I noticed in the huddle at the beginning he was doing the talking and he was way more visible on the pitch than Tonali or Gallagher. He had a bad game but part of that was due to him not hiding imo. I agree with all the people saying he has no fixed skill set that fits a position though. Gray looked far more unenthused which is fair enough seeing as he is always having to play in desperate backlines.
 
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DeanoAustin said:
I’ll probably take some brick for this but has Bergvall ever really had a good game for us? I can’t remember one and I still don’t know what sort of player he is.

He obviously has talent and he’s young but I’m not too bothered if he goes. I’ve seen a lot more from Gray for example. Gray had a spell under Tudor particularly (the AM second leg being the pinnacle) where I could see what he can become. Bergvall? Not so much.
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goal and assist against west ham

if i recall correctly he had a concussion soon after
 
DeanoAustin said:
I’ll probably take some brick for this but has Bergvall ever really had a good game for us? I can’t remember one and I still don’t know what sort of player he is.

He obviously has talent and he’s young but I’m not too bothered if he goes. I’ve seen a lot more from Gray for example. Gray had a spell under Tudor particularly (the AM second leg being the pinnacle) where I could see what he can become. Bergvall? Not so much.
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Happy to see him stay as I think he has some talent undoubtedly. But don't know what he's supposed to be exactly and that is a concern considering the amount of time he's been here now. The way people were losing their brick about potentially selling him for around 50m was crazy considering what he's actually done in a Spurs shirt to date.

It's like people on here because of our transfer ethos in the past to buy young and hope they turn out really good have been trained to think that because a player is young and have some form of ability they are going to end up being amazing and that's better than having an older option who has actually proved they have quality....
 
Kane said:
Yep, he'll find his level.
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I think the fact that we’re not really any closer to knowing what that is, despite him having featured for us on almost 80 occasions now, is a concern.

It could eventually be as a driving force at a very successful Bayern; or it might be getting sent off for Leicester in League One. It’s probably most likely to be somewhere in between - a regular in a team like Forest or Napoli.
 
Legohamster said:
He spends the summer saying he wants minutes, then throws in a stinker and looks like he wants to be anywhere else when he starts the first game 😂
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This did stand out a bit for me too. I'm wary of criticising individuals when it's bad performances all round, but considering he wanted to leave and has been given the chance to prove his worth his attitude appeared poor and more bothered about that side of things than his actual performance on the ball etc.

Not going to go overboard as it was just one of those days where it was a stinker all round, but this highlights why a lot of the squad needs to be gutted - the attitude of a lot of these players appears to be questionable from the outside looking in....
 
harr1984 said:
This did stand out a bit for me too. I'm wary of criticising individuals when it's bad performances all round, but considering he wanted to leave and has been given the chance to prove his worth his attitude appeared poor and more bothered about that side of things than his actual performance on the ball etc.

Not going to go overboard as it was just one of those days where it was a stinker all round, but this highlights why a lot of the squad needs to be gutted - the attitude of a lot of these players appears to be questionable from the outside looking in....
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But was slightly better than a player we spent 85m on who also threw up a stinker
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Whatever it was it was marginal, I don't think going after Bergvall makes any sense as I don't Tonali either. 20 year old lad who is still learning his trade.
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To be fair Marty not going after him, literally said 'wary of criticising individuals when it's a bad performance all round'.

But there are valid concerns that are allowed to be highlighted - we still don't know what type of midfielder he is, that's not all on him of course. But the fact every manager tries him out in different positions is concerning as appears they don't really know either. I'm confident RDZ has the right vision for him so will be interesting to see where he plays. But it's a valid question, yes he is young so we don't need to expect him to be putting in stellar performances week after week but not unreasonable for us to know what type of midfielder he is looking to become.

And considering he wanted to leave because he wasn't going to apparently get the first team chances he wanted I didn't think his attitude looked like someone especially for first game of the season who wanted to show the boss 'You can't sell me'. I don't mind his on the ball stuff not working as everyone was poor, but I didn't think his attitude looked great from where I was watching.

Hopefully in the coming weeks both question marks are answered, I don't think anyone on here particularly questions he has some talent - just how, if at all can be harnessed in this league....
 
harr1984 said:
And considering he wanted to leave because he wasn't going to apparently get the first team chances he wanted I didn't think his attitude looked like someone especially for first game of the season who wanted to show the boss 'You can't sell me'. I don't mind his on the ball stuff not working as everyone was poor, but I didn't think his attitude looked great from where I was watching.
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In what respect though, thats a fairly generic statement, having a poor game isn't IMO a sign of a poor attitude, so what did you see specifically that made you think that
 
harr1984 said:
To be fair Marty not going after him, literally said 'wary of criticising individuals when it's a bad performance all round'.

But there are valid concerns that are allowed to be highlighted - we still don't know what type of midfielder he is, that's not all on him of course. But the fact every manager tries him out in different positions is concerning as appears they don't really know either. I'm confident RDZ has the right vision for him so will be interesting to see where he plays. But it's a valid question, yes he is young so we don't need to expect him to be putting in stellar performances week after week but not unreasonable for us to know what type of midfielder he is looking to become.

And considering he wanted to leave because he wasn't going to apparently get the first team chances he wanted I didn't think his attitude looked like someone especially for first game of the season who wanted to show the boss 'You can't sell me'. I don't mind his on the ball stuff not working as everyone was poor, but I didn't think his attitude looked great from where I was watching.

Hopefully in the coming weeks both question marks are answered, I don't think anyone on here particularly questions he has some talent - just how, if at all can be harnessed in this league....
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Good analysis. I have been recalling his better games and the common thread in those (West Ham away, Liverpool home and a couple of others) saw him arriving in the box at speed. I suspect his best role is as a Lampard/Dele type. Neither of those players were asked to press anywhere as much as midfielders now, although Dele was a phenomenal athlete and Lampard was a high class all-round midfielder.

I may be completely wrong, but as you say, none of our managers seem to know what kind of player he is either.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
But was slightly better than a player we spent 85m on who also threw up a stinker
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I know you are trying to balance the negativity but Tonali is proven PL quality over multiple seasons hence his transfer fee. I think he'll be a really good signing. Lucas, hasn't really progressed here. He's making the same mistakes as he has always made. I remember his first game under De Zerbi where he was also hooked at half time iirc. He also indicated he wanted to leave before RDZ talked him around.

Look, no one knows if this kid is going to develop into a really decent player, I hope for his sake he does. But I think he needs a fresh start away from Spurs. £46 million given we sold our former captain for 12 grand less is really good money imho.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
In what respect though, thats a fairly generic statement, having a poor game isn't IMO a sign of a poor attitude, so what did you see specifically that made you think that
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That's why I'm trying to separate what I thought his attitude looked like vs what he did with the ball. I just thought his demeanour looked poor, didn't look like he wanted to show why he should be there. But I accept totally it was a bad day all round hence why I'm not going to be over critical of him.

But I did expect him to show a bit more regardless of what was going on around him considering his willingness to leave at the prospect of not being given an opportunity. If you think that's overly harsh fair play, perhaps it is - but that's how I felt, and I'm not looking to criticise him any further than that really....
 
Robspur12 said:
I know you are trying to balance the negativity but Tonali is proven PL quality over multiple seasons hence his transfer fee. I think he'll be a really good signing. Lucas, hasn't really progressed here. He's making the same mistakes as he has always made. I remember his first game under De Zerbi where he was also hooked at half time iirc. He also indicated he wanted to leave before RDZ talked him around.
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I think he is an absolutely tremendous signing, I have said that everywhere but its true, they both played poorly which I think was indicative of the entire teams performance. I don't think it was especially an indication on anything about Bergvall, I certainly don't buy into the idea there is something to question with his attitude either.

I am not going to be deliberately down on the new players, I do think with the money we have spent I do also think there is a bigger expectation on them than there should be in the likes of Bergvall, especially when in some areas we have made a clear intent (in the case of defence) where we have shifted heaven, earth and players to build a team around them.

Robspur12 said:
Look, no one knows if this kid is going to develop into a really decent player, I hope for his sake he does. But I think he needs a fresh start away from Spurs. £46 million given we sold our former captain for 12 grand less is really good money imho.
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TBH I think he is fine here as long as there is an acceptance that he is still in development, RDZ touched on it post game and said exactly that.
 
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