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25/26 Injury and illness thread

Robspur12 said:
Data is the most important consideration first. Did we see spikes in injuries earlier than would normally be expected over Ange's 2 seasons than before or after. Was the recovery time longer etc etc. From there we add the context. It may be that the data concludes that there were no greater injury spikes than to be expected during Ange's time. Which is fine. Although I doubt the exercise will end the arguments :grinning:.

What ever the conclusions, I think it is clear that the bodies of these footballers are being put under intolerable pressures these days which is seeing bigger injury lists across the board.
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I think the last sentence is honestly the most relevant. On the pod we’ve been banging on about the overuse of players for two to three years now -certainly since that ludicrous World Cup- and I genuinely believe between that and the extra tournaments being foisted upon these players, we are shortening careers that would once have been 15 or so, to 10 max.
 
braineclipse said:
The same spiral as last season. Injuries breed injuries and a manager under pressure, lacking good options and managing a team struggling for form will overplay important starters.
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It’s easy to look at the injury situation from last season and compare to this one and say “it’s the same.” I think there is a difference to last year which is why I think data would be useful. The recent spate of injuries seemed to have happened during the busy festive period where the rest time between games has been less. That’s kind of expected (although there are loads of variables). Last season the injuries seemed to be happening earlier in the season. I don’t want to examine the data just as another way to beat Ange as there is no point, he’s gone. But rather to support my belief that one of the few things that TF has got right to this point is managing the fitness of his players through careful rotation.
 
So in the 15th Jan last season we had the NLD. Team and subs:

Kinsky; Porro, Dragusin, Gray, Spence; Sarr, Bissouma, Bergval; Kulu, Solanke, Son
Subs: Austin, Hardy, Johnson, Lankshear, Olusesi, Madds, Moore, Reggie, Richi

A year later, our squad in a few days time will be.....

Vic, Kinsky, Porro, Spence, Udogie, Davies, Romero, VDV, Danso, Dragusin, Palhinha, Gray, Gallagher?, Xavi, Tel, Odobert, Muani, Solanke, Bissouma?, Scarlett, LWB, Olusesi

Obviously, it seems stronger but if we don't land Gallagher and offload a couple like Dragusin / Biss then it won't be that dissimilar. I think the bench will be mildly stronger to be fair.
 
Muttley said:
So in the 15th Jan last season we had the NLD. Team and subs:

Kinsky; Porro, Dragusin, Gray, Spence; Sarr, Bissouma, Bergval; Kulu, Solanke, Son
Subs: Austin, Hardy, Johnson, Lankshear, Olusesi, Madds, Moore, Reggie, Richi

A year later, our squad in a few days time will be.....

Vic, Kinsky, Porro, Spence, Udogie, Davies, Romero, VDV, Danso, Dragusin, Palhinha, Gray, Gallagher?, Xavi, Tel, Odobert, Muani, Solanke, Bissouma?, Scarlett, LWB, Olusesi

Obviously, it seems stronger but if we don't land Gallagher and offload a couple like Dragusin / Biss then it won't be that dissimilar. I think the bench will be mildly stronger to be fair.
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Our defence is stronger currently. But last year’s attack was considerably stronger. A fit Madders, Kulu Son and Solanke is the stuff of dreams this season.n
 
Bullet said:
Wow, your post has really thrown me. I'm shocked.

You said "you're accusing a professional manager of ignoring medical advice to put the health of his players' at risk" so I showed you an example from last week, to make it clear that it is very common for a top level manager to ignore medical advice and put the player's health at risk... and your response is to imply it is completely unrelated?

You need to take a step back and reassess, I think you have gone way down the Ange rabbit hole and can no longer see daylight.
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Yep, fair enough I completely missed your intended context. Makes sense.

But as for your last sentence…sticking up for the bloke who won us a European trophy is going down a rabbit hole, but still blaming him for injuries is completely normal?
 
Robspur12 said:
@tommysvr I would be genuinely interested, in terms of research, to see when in the season lower muscle and in particular hamstring, and calf injuries started and the recovery time (I.e. period on the sidelines) over the last 5 seasons and including this one. For example, hadn't we lost both our main CBs before Christmas 2 seasons in a row? Not sure if you can provide that data (or can be bothered too)?
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I recently added injuries to my databases but it’s so hard to track them all down for the past few years. I will try to slowly add them but likely just going to be a thing for this season onwards.

If someone has a nice list of them at all I would love to use it.
 
dingdongo said:
Maddison doing some shooting practice today. I know its gonna take ages to get match ready but its got to be optimistic of a return this season right?
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On his YouTube he’s due to have next chekup with consultant in March before he can resume full training, so fingers crossed that goes better than Kulusevski and doesn’t result in Maddison requiring pain-killing injections plus another month out too.
 
braineclipse said:
The same spiral as last season. Injuries breed injuries and a manager under pressure, lacking good options and managing a team struggling for form will overplay important starters.
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In fairness, he has had options. When Richarlison finally got crocked on Saturday, we had Muani and Tel who could both play as 9s (I won’t count the return of Solanke). Despite losing Kudus and deciding to get rid of Johnson, he still has Odobert and Muani who can play that side. Despite not having Madders he has Simons. I think his options this season have been fine (i.e. he’s had some options, more than during other recent injury crisis). The rest I agree with…
 
thfcsteff said:
In fairness, he has had options. When Richarlison finally got crocked on Saturday, we had Muani and Tel who could both play as 9s (I won’t count the return of Solanke). Despite losing Kudus and deciding to get rid of Johnson, he still has Odobert and Muani who can play that side. Despite not having Madders he has Simons. I think his options this season have been fine (i.e. he’s had some options, more than during other recent injury crisis). The rest I agree with…
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I agree. And part of what I meant by "will overplay important starters". The necessity of the next result gets so important that options aren't used.
 
It seems straightforward to me, to put different players on different time limits:
Let's say each game is 100 minutes (e.g. 45+4 in the first half and 45+6 in the second half) as that makes the maths easier.

You pick certain players for each game that will stay on the pitch and play for the full 100 minutes.
Then other players will be picked to be 60:40 players so they either play the first 60 or the last 40.
You can dress it up as saying "You are first 60, you are my starter, you are vital" and also "You are last 40, you are the difference maker that comes on against tired legs and wins us the game".

A centre back might get 100 100 60 100 100 40 100 100 60 100 100 40 so they play a lot of 100s as there is less running.
An explosive winger or striker might get 60 100 40 60 100 40 i.e. if they play 100 they get 40 next time out.
A box to box midfielder who has to sprint up and down throughout could get 60 40 60 40 60 40 60 40 and never see 100 as you want them sprinting at every moment like Caceido/Enzo shut us completely down when we played Cheatski. No jogging, no walking, just sprinting and smashing.

Of course you have your favourites and it irks you to take off your best players, but this method means your best players almost never get that massive injury that keeps them out for 3 months or 6 months or 9+ months like Deki et al, so you can keep playing your best players in Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb and crucially into the business end of the season whey you are trying to win trophies.
 
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