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Guglielmo Vicario

It may have been said and i may be late to the party but im not convinced the boo-ing was aimed at Vicario specifically, but was a subconcious response to the weekly individual fudge ups by our players which directly lead to goals in every game we have recently played. The fans are tired of monumental individual errors every match.
 
Eriktheviking said:
It may have been said and i may be late to the party but im not convinced the boo-ing was aimed at Vicario specifically, but was a subconcious response to the weekly individual fudge ups by our players which directly lead to goals in every game we have recently played. The fans are tired of monumental individual errors every match.
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It was 100% aimed at Vicario. They booed everytime the ball went to him in the minutes after his error
 
monkeybarry said:
..... playing.....

He scores goals. Goals affect games.
He is good at two or three things - expecting more is unrealistic. But those things are pace, getting in good positions and putting the ball in the net, by hook or by crook.
It's no coincidence that he's benched and we've been profligate.
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I agree that his goalscoring knack is something we miss but I just don't think it will work with Frank. Our problem is creating chances, that is far from Johnson's forte. If it was a case of us creating a lot and not scoring then sure Johnson should be in the conversation.

But he is not really a chance creator unless there is space for him to run into and for the most part teams defend deep against us and we are just chucking crosses in the box - Johnson's crossing isn't great so he's not going to help in that area and he doesn't score many with his head so wouldnt score many either....
 
carl said:
It was 100% aimed at Vicario. They booed everytime the ball went to him in the minutes after his error
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I get that and what you say but let's say the team was doing OK this season, would Vicario get the treatment he did if the same thing happened? Im not convinced, his mistake was the final straw for many and was therefore the unfortunate recipient. Im not sure why the jeers were repeated, i certainly dint think Vic is deserving of that, look at his performances against Monaco and Everton.
 
harr1984 said:
I agree that his goalscoring knack is something we miss but I just don't think it will work with Frank. Our problem is creating chances, that is far from Johnson's forte. If it was a case of us creating a lot and not scoring then sure Johnson should be in the conversation.

But he is not really a chance creator unless there is space for him to run into and for the most part teams defend deep against us and we are just chucking crosses in the box - Johnson's crossing isn't great so he's not going to help in that area and he doesn't score many with his head so wouldnt score many either....
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Right now we need someone that looks like scoring. What he brings will ask questions of the opposition - at the minute we're playing like it's the other teams ball and we've been invited to make up the numbers.

He doesn't need space to run into for his goals - he's just as likely to scuff one in because he's in a decent position. In that sense he reminds me of Pavlyuchenko - not the most attractive player, but the ball went in.
 
harr1984 said:
I agree that his goalscoring knack is something we miss but I just don't think it will work with Frank. Our problem is creating chances, that is far from Johnson's forte. If it was a case of us creating a lot and not scoring then sure Johnson should be in the conversation.

But he is not really a chance creator unless there is space for him to run into and for the most part teams defend deep against us and we are just chucking crosses in the box - Johnson's crossing isn't great so he's not going to help in that area and he doesn't score many with his head so wouldnt score many either....
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Again I will raise the question of teams defending deep against us. I feel that it's a hangover of belief from when we were decent and not the reality of how teams set up against us now.
 
monkeybarry said:
In that sense he reminds me of Pavlyuchenko - not the most attractive player, but the ball went in.
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Pav may have been crap in the build up but I always thought he had a decent shot on him. He scored some real crackers.

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fernadez said:
Again I will raise the question of teams defending deep against us. I feel that it's a hangover of belief from when we were decent and not the reality of how teams set up against us now.
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Indeed. Teams aren't dropping deep against us they are instead pressing us and penning us in. Then through a combination of having so many men behind the ball, not really having any set pattern of play and also having a team that seems to play in a horse shoe type way with no penetrating passes through the centre we're not progressing the ball forward into positions where we create chances.
 
monkeybarry said:
..... playing.....

He scores goals. Goals affect games.
He is good at two or three things - expecting more is unrealistic. But those things are pace, getting in good positions and putting the ball in the net, by hook or by crook.
It's no coincidence that he's benched and we've been profligate.
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Sorry, expecting him to be good at more than scoring is expecting too much? He literally doesn’t offer anything if he doesn’t score. We shouldn’t set the bar so low that we accept such a poor standard. Even the best wingers and forwards in the world can’t score every game, but they find other ways to be effective and influence the game when they don’t have their shooting boots or if a chance doesn’t fall to them.
 
I watched Dirty Leeds beat Cheating Chelsea earlier.

At one point, Sanchez came charging out and tried to bang the ball long, but just scuffed his clearance down the line, directly to a Leeds player.

Just like Vic did, a complete scuffer along the floor. Unfortunately the Leeds player made a weak attempt which Chalobah could control with his feet, whereas the Fulham Welshy pinged a pearler into the net. C'est la vie. All keepers are both bad and good.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Sorry, expecting him to be good at more than scoring is expecting too much? He literally doesn’t offer anything if he doesn’t score. We shouldn’t set the bar so low that we accept such a poor standard. Even the best wingers and forwards in the world can’t score every game, but they find other ways to be effective and influence the game when they don’t have their shooting boots or if a chance doesn’t fall to them.
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Right now, when we are struggling to put the ball in the net.....
 
Interesting that he tried his usual yelling routine with Gray after sending him another hospital pass the kid ultimately couldn't handle - but this time, both VdV and Bentancur immediately put their arms around Gray and literally glared at Vicario.

I'm not sure his routine of blaming everyone but himself for some of his errors is going down well, and I doubt he's winning many friends picking on a young kid like Gray. Remember he did the same thing last season to some other kid (maybe even Gray again), and got immediately stared down by (I think) Danso.

I learned pretty quickly as a goalkeeper that your teammates will forgive errors, but they won't forgive you trying to shirk responsibility for them. I hope that's something he recognizes, because I don't like that he tries that as often as he does. It doesn't come across as him trying to hold his defense accountable - it's more like bullying someone else after a mistake *you* made.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Interesting that he tried his usual yelling routine with Gray after sending him another hospital pass the kid ultimately couldn't handle - but this time, both VdV and Bentancur immediately put their arms around Gray and literally glared at Vicario.

I'm not sure his routine of blaming everyone but himself for some of his errors is going down well, and I doubt he's winning many friends picking on a young kid like Gray. Remember he did the same thing last season to some other kid (maybe even Gray again), and got immediately stared down by (I think) Danso.

I learned pretty quickly as a goalkeeper that your teammates will forgive errors, but they won't forgive you trying to shirk responsibility for them. I hope that's something he recognizes, because I don't like that he tries that as often as he does. It doesn't come across as him trying to hold his defense accountable - it's more like bullying someone else after a mistake *you* made.
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The mistake was Grays, he called for the ball and had ample time/space to play the one time pass to Romero - maybe Vicario should have seen the player behind but as I said even with the situation being what it was Gray had the time to make the pass without the Forest player being a concern.

Romero's pass to Sarr v PSG on the other hand was much worse as the opposition player was in a much more threatening position wrt closing down our player.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Interesting that he tried his usual yelling routine with Gray after sending him another hospital pass the kid ultimately couldn't handle - but this time, both VdV and Bentancur immediately put their arms around Gray and literally glared at Vicario.

I'm not sure his routine of blaming everyone but himself for some of his errors is going down well, and I doubt he's winning many friends picking on a young kid like Gray. Remember he did the same thing last season to some other kid (maybe even Gray again), and got immediately stared down by (I think) Danso.

I learned pretty quickly as a goalkeeper that your teammates will forgive errors, but they won't forgive you trying to shirk responsibility for them. I hope that's something he recognizes, because I don't like that he tries that as often as he does. It doesn't come across as him trying to hold his defense accountable - it's more like bullying someone else after a mistake *you* made.
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He did it a couple of times with Bergvall last season. Have yet to see him do it with a senior player.
 
billyiddo said:
The mistake was Grays, he called for the ball and had ample time/space to play the one time pass to Romero - maybe Vicario should have seen the player behind but as I said even with the situation being what it was Gray had the time to make the pass without the Forest player being a concern.
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Gray's a kid trying to do everything by himself, as young players generally like to do. Him calling for the ball doesn't mean you just give it to him - you're the goalie, you can see what's behind Gray, and it's on you to make the decision as a player with nearly 10 more years of experience.

You pass to Gray in that position, you put him in trouble - better players than Gray have been caught in that scenario.

harr1984 said:
I'll ask again where are these yelling at Gray pictures? All I saw was the camera pan to him after the goal talking/whinging to himself making general gestures. And then at half time it shows him going to pat Gray on the back....
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Hopefully comes up on Twitter soon, mate. Right after the goal, before the camera pans in on him, you can see him gesticulating and yelling at Gray. Then when the camera cuts to Gray being reassured by VdV and Benta, you can see both of them shooting daggers at Vicario behind them.
 
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