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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Jurgen the German said:
If you look at the points total from the Chelsea game onwards then it was relegation form over the two seasons. Not the first but when you combine them, it was shocking form.

The injuries were partly caused by Ange and his system and the lack of rotation. Of course there’s always some luck to injuries but there followed him his career.
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Everyone says the injuries were partly caused by the manager
and the same thing is happening under Frank too
Yet I hear.. he is missing players because of injury
Both can be true but if people are judging fairly then both should be judged to the same standard
 
billyiddo said:
Dunno exactly, i was supportive going in to the second season, but that's not the point re the last post.

Last season started badly, got worse and ended as the worst league performance in our clubs history, and followed a poor second half to the previous season where we lost more games than we won including 5 of the last 7.

So it wasn't a poor final 6 months, it was 18 months (1.5 seasons) of steadily declining results & performances - anyone becoming Ange out around the new year had already shown 12 months +/- of patience.
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Giving a manager a season isn’t patience. That’s surely the bare minimum - just like Frank is getting now. Losing faith 6 months after finishing 5th isn’t patience either. If Thomas Frank finds himself under pressure next December, it’ll be just as ridiculous. And based on the current tone, I think there’s a good chance that’s what is going to happen. Spurs as a club and a fanbase have never shown the ability to get through a rough patch. We sacked Pochettino 6 months after the Champions League final FFS
 
tommysvr said:
Giving a manager a season isn’t patience. That’s surely the bare minimum - just like Frank is getting now. Losing faith 6 months after finishing 5th isn’t patience either. If Thomas Frank finds himself under pressure next December, it’ll be just as ridiculous. And based on the current tone, I think there’s a good chance that’s what is going to happen. Spurs as a club and a fanbase have never shown the ability to get through a rough patch. We sacked Pochettino 6 months after the Champions League final FFS
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Managers earn time by showing progress
Even if there is some regression on the way
No one can say that we are not defending better under Frank. But also how much is coaching and how much is because we have better players available this season and a team focused on defending over attacking

But football is a game of very small margins, you do have to have a way of creating chances. Thats where we are suffering now across the team and its possibly the players not being good enough, or the set up.

Personally I think it’s both And why I want to see the flexibility from Frank to do something about it. That’s why I wanted him as manager. He adapts to what he has … or did at Brentford.
 
tommysvr said:
Giving a manager a season isn’t patience. That’s surely the bare minimum - just like Frank is getting now. Losing faith 6 months after finishing 5th isn’t patience either. If Thomas Frank finds himself under pressure next December, it’ll be just as ridiculous. And based on the current tone, I think there’s a good chance that’s what is going to happen. Spurs as a club and a fanbase have never shown the ability to get through a rough patch. We sacked Pochettino 6 months after the Champions League final FFS
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Listening to Gareths podcast the other day and it struck me that our last three cup winning managers are at best openly derided and at worst hated.
We're a strange old club at times.
 
What we need to see, over the course of a season is the output of having the first choice defence available for Frank and the results it brings

We know the numbers that it delivered under Ange and we need to see if that is correlated here

I always believe the right coach adds points over the season by adapting and being smart and that’s with and without his best players all the time
 
tommysvr said:
Giving a manager a season isn’t patience. That’s surely the bare minimum - just like Frank is getting now. Losing faith 6 months after finishing 5th isn’t patience either. If Thomas Frank finds himself under pressure next December, it’ll be just as ridiculous. And based on the current tone, I think there’s a good chance that’s what is going to happen. Spurs as a club and a fanbase have never shown the ability to get through a rough patch. We sacked Pochettino 6 months after the Champions League final FFS
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I would like to think, and actually do think that the tone on this board is a fair one and different to what is reflected in the stands. (I appreciate you might have been referring to the tone elsewhere).

For example I personally and others have criticised Franks playing style for us, however as far as I can see everyone has acknowledged he needs time. But we can only comment on what we are seeing, and to date it is predictable and turgid. And when criticism appears, it is simply discussing things that Frank has to improve and work on - not in a tone of 'I've had enough, improve within a couple of weeks or I want him out'.

I have reservations about him and not entirely convinced he will adapt the way you need to from Brentford to a club like Spurs. However I'm totally open to what he can do and I really like him - he needs two years bar an absolute car crash to demonstrate if he's up to the task. But my fear is that those that go to games aren't a barometer of this forum and haven't from what I've seen shown anywhere near the patience and realism that most show on this board and if in the coming month or two the football doesn't improve I'd wager a significant part of the crowd are going to start getting vocal negatively, which is just not going to help anyone.....
 
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tommysvr said:
Giving a manager a season isn’t patience. That’s surely the bare minimum - just like Frank is getting now. Losing faith 6 months after finishing 5th isn’t patience either. If Thomas Frank finds himself under pressure next December, it’ll be just as ridiculous. And based on the current tone, I think there’s a good chance that’s what is going to happen. Spurs as a club and a fanbase have never shown the ability to get through a rough patch. We sacked Pochettino 6 months after the Champions League final FFS
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It's all degrees of the same thing. You can write off six months of poor form as it's year one and managers need time but that's patience ultimately.


And again - the point being made was that you thought we only had a bad 6 months, my response to that was that we had 18 months of poor form, not 6 - that doesn't change because some of that fell within the managers first season.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
What we need to see, over the course of a season is the output of having the first choice defence available for Frank and the results it brings

We know the numbers that it delivered under Ange and we need to see if that is correlated here

I always believe the right coach adds points over the season by adapting and being smart and that’s with and without his best players all the time
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Sorry, what delivered under Ange? 🤣
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
When people say Ange’s first season ended in disaster I’m just begging them to actually look at our results over the course of that season. Anyone would think we went from title contention to relegation form. But it’s just not the case. Yes, we dropped off after a crazy good start, but we had plenty of good performances and results throughout the rest of that season.
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Jurgen the German said:
If you look from game 11 of the first season to the end of Ange’s second season then it was relegation form. And he continued that with Forest.
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carl said:
Yeah we were only going 1 way with Ange. This is his record with us

1st Season
First 19 games - 1.95 PPG
Last 19 games - 1.57 PPG

2nd season
First 19 games - 1.26 PPG
Last 19 games - 0.73 PPG
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tommysvr said:
At what point did you want Ange gone then?
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Jurgen the German said:
If you look at the points total from the Chelsea game onwards then it was relegation form over the two seasons. Not the first but when you combine them, it was shocking form.

The injuries were partly caused by Ange and his system and the lack of rotation. Of course there’s always some luck to injuries but there followed him his career.
Click to expand...

billyiddo said:
Dunno exactly, i was supportive going in to the second season, but that's not the point re the last post.

Last season started badly, got worse and ended as the worst league performance in our clubs history, and followed a poor second half to the previous season where we lost more games than we won including 5 of the last 7.

So it wasn't a poor final 6 months, it was 18 months (1.5 seasons) of steadily declining results & performances - anyone becoming Ange out around the new year had already shown 12 months +/- of patience.
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Go Purge yourselves
 
parklane1 said:
My thoughts as well, we have some fans foaming at the mouth about our form after 3 months. Its going to take far longer then that before we see any REAL progress. New manager and a bunch of new players plus some injurys to important players.
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I was referring to the league as whole, it's going to be an unpredictable season.
Re: us - completely agree. Xmas will be when the foundations settle - growth can come from there.
 
billyiddo said:
It's all degrees of the same thing. You can write off six months of poor form as it's year one and managers need time but that's patience ultimately.


And again - the point being made was that you thought we only had a bad 6 months, my response to that was that we had 18 months of poor form, not 6 - that doesn't change because some of that fell within the managers first season.
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he proved us wrong at Forest where he won all those games.... o wait.
 
glasgowspur said:
Listening to Gareths podcast the other day and it struck me that our last three cup winning managers are at best openly derided and at worst hated.
We're a strange old club at times.
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it's an interesting point, I'm not sure how accurate it is.

Graham was in a hiding to nothing, completely ridiculous appointment really.

I'm not sure Ramos is looked back on that badly? Everyone sort of realised it wasn't working and just parted ways - I can't really recall there being much bad blood after he left
 
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