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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 67 37.0%

  • Out

    Votes: 114 63.0%
  • Total voters
    181
Surfless said:
Weirdly me. And not in the truest sense of the word.

This is a dreadful season. Truly, wholeheartedly garbage.

My issue is that I just don't see how things are going to change while the status quo remains in the whole football setup at the club. Lange was paratici was ....back to comolli and arnesen. We do some stuff to strengthen the team, and then just don't do the last bit. You don't get to a champions league final and not back the best manager in a generation. You don't sell bale and buy 5 average players and eriksen and lamela and pretend it's better than it was.

Ange was provided with 3 bonefide centre backs this season when we started the year, no spare left back, no spare right (Spence was not deemed up to it at the time, which is a whole other story). He wasn't backed in the forward line until the last few days of the window and still had Gil and Solomon around the place, taking up cash and a squad number.

We just don't take risks. We are so risk adverse that we are almost the antithesis of our freaking motto. We don't dare and we absolutely don't do.

This permiates the whole club, from the top down.

I'm not a levy hater and I admire so much about where we are but the time has come to our a footballing structure between him and the team, set an objective of winning X or y and then sign the cheques. No bargain basement, no £40m player when Declan rice costs £100m. You're top level business men, go find the cash, find the investment and give one of the poor barstewards we have employed a fighting chance, not a team playing with it's laces tied together.

So in summary, sure Ange has effed a load of stuff up this season. But so did conte, and so did Nuno and so did mourinho and so did Poch and so did avb and so did Sherwood and so did 'arry and so did Juande Ramos. Who won a cup having played dreadful football, lost 14 games and finished on 46 points.

We can't just keep sacking people because we have a broken footballing philosophy. That like fixing the lounge window every six months when you glasses are cracked.
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If ever there was a manager to sack from that list quick, it's Ange.
I agree with the rest, getting a bunch of Australians with no experience was a bad idea, at least someone in higher management should have questioned that.
 
monkeybarry said:
So what competitions/goals are you interested in winning/hitting?
Click to expand...
An entirely pointless question since, thanks to this utter charlatan, the club's involvement in all other competitions was ignominiously ended a long time ago. When he's GONE, I might care again, but for the present, he has all but destroyed my interest in watching.
 
Surfless said:
Weirdly me. And not in the truest sense of the word.

This is a dreadful season. Truly, wholeheartedly garbage.

My issue is that I just don't see how things are going to change while the status quo remains in the whole football setup at the club. Lange was paratici was ....back to comolli and arnesen. We do some stuff to strengthen the team, and then just don't do the last bit. You don't get to a champions league final and not back the best manager in a generation. You don't sell bale and buy 5 average players and eriksen and lamela and pretend it's better than it was.

Ange was provided with 3 bonefide centre backs this season when we started the year, no spare left back, no spare right (Spence was not deemed up to it at the time, which is a whole other story). He wasn't backed in the forward line until the last few days of the window and still had Gil and Solomon around the place, taking up cash and a squad number.

We just don't take risks. We are so risk adverse that we are almost the antithesis of our freaking motto. We don't dare and we absolutely don't do.

This permiates the whole club, from the top down.

I'm not a levy hater and I admire so much about where we are but the time has come to our a footballing structure between him and the team, set an objective of winning X or y and then sign the cheques. No bargain basement, no £40m player when Declan rice costs £100m. You're top level business men, go find the cash, find the investment and give one of the poor barstewards we have employed a fighting chance, not a team playing with it's laces tied together.

So in summary, sure Ange has effed a load of stuff up this season. But so did conte, and so did Nuno and so did mourinho and so did Poch and so did avb and so did Sherwood and so did 'arry and so did Juande Ramos. Who won a cup having played dreadful football, lost 14 games and finished on 46 points.

We can't just keep sacking people because we have a broken footballing philosophy. That like fixing the lounge window every six months when you glasses are cracked.
Click to expand...

An excellent post IMO. In fact, for me personally, this is the best and most balanced post on our current situation I've read in ages. I'm interested to know how many people take the time read it properly as opposed to decide within secionds that it doesn't fit their own specific opinions on whomever.
 
thfcsteff said:
An excellent post IMO. In fact, for me personally, this is the best and most balanced post on our current situation I've read in ages. I'm interested to know how many people take the time read it properly as opposed to decide within secionds that it doesn't fit their own specific opinions on whomever.
Click to expand...
I read it and agree, but surely people still dont think the football is decent and worth keeping? Even with city's players Angeas tactics wouldn't win us the league. It just doesn't work and it is boring football. I don't think you can say Peps tactics are that boring, they do score goals and win games and can dominate games. We can score goals but can't win games and let in a fudge load.
 
I find it sensational that we have no interest in concentration for the first 20min in most games. It's like a tactic to concede as quickly as possible......
 
Daveeeeeeeed said:
I read it and agree, but surely people still dont think the football is decent and worth keeping? Even with city's players Angeas tactics wouldn't win us the league. It just doesn't work and it is boring football. I don't think you can say Peps tactics are that boring, they do score goals and win games and can dominate games. We can score goals but can't win games and let in a fudge load.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm not sure it's even a conversation at this point. My personal view is that he won't be here in the summer as no-one could survive both a season like this or the huge waves of pressurized and oft-negative energy circulating the club. So whether it is our choice or his, I fully expect him to be gone regardless of anything.
 
Surfless said:
Weirdly me. And not in the truest sense of the word.

This is a dreadful season. Truly, wholeheartedly garbage.

My issue is that I just don't see how things are going to change while the status quo remains in the whole football setup at the club. Lange was paratici was ....back to comolli and arnesen. We do some stuff to strengthen the team, and then just don't do the last bit. You don't get to a champions league final and not back the best manager in a generation. You don't sell bale and buy 5 average players and eriksen and lamela and pretend it's better than it was.

Ange was provided with 3 bonefide centre backs this season when we started the year, no spare left back, no spare right (Spence was not deemed up to it at the time, which is a whole other story). He wasn't backed in the forward line until the last few days of the window and still had Gil and Solomon around the place, taking up cash and a squad number.

We just don't take risks. We are so risk adverse that we are almost the antithesis of our freaking motto. We don't dare and we absolutely don't do.

This permiates the whole club, from the top down.

I'm not a levy hater and I admire so much about where we are but the time has come to our a footballing structure between him and the team, set an objective of winning X or y and then sign the cheques. No bargain basement, no £40m player when Declan rice costs £100m. You're top level business men, go find the cash, find the investment and give one of the poor barstewards we have employed a fighting chance, not a team playing with it's laces tied together.

So in summary, sure Ange has effed a load of stuff up this season. But so did conte, and so did Nuno and so did mourinho and so did Poch and so did avb and so did Sherwood and so did 'arry and so did Juande Ramos. Who won a cup having played dreadful football, lost 14 games and finished on 46 points.

We can't just keep sacking people because we have a broken footballing philosophy. That like fixing the lounge window every six months when you glasses are cracked.
Click to expand...

The status quo at this club has been European football, being in the top 6, 15 out of last 19 seasons, not being out of top 8 since 2008.

The outlier in all of your pitch is Ange. None of Poch, Conte, Jose, AVB, Sherwood, none of these guys finished outside the top 8. Somehow the thing you think are holding us back gave those guys the tools to be "almost" there. Ange has gotten more than almost all of them, 300M and all the fudging leeway in the world, and he's going to finish 16th or 17th with the worst league record in the club's history.

If this guy was 8th or even with a shot of finishing 8th, your view might hold water but it's (being polite) delusional.

Honestly, no fudging idea how/why people are deflecting from this guy, jesus, Harry & Poch at least gave us a few good years, this guy has literally given us 10 games followed by 18 months of absolute misery and you think it's because he didn't get LB cover?
 
thfcsteff said:
An excellent post IMO. In fact, for me personally, this is the best and most balanced post on our current situation I've read in ages. I'm interested to know how many people take the time read it properly as opposed to decide within secionds that it doesn't fit their own specific opinions on whomever.
Click to expand...
I read it. We're 16th, if we were 10th I'd agree with the sentiment but he's got the whole so far below the sum of its parts, more than any of those other managers ever did.
 
fernadez said:
I read it. We're 16th, if we were 10th I'd agree with the sentiment but he's got the whole so far below the sum of its parts, more than any of those other managers ever did.
Click to expand...

It's a post that tries to absolve the manager of blame for producing the worst team performance in living memory because the club didn't manage to do all of the transfer work required when rebuilding the squad within a year.
 
Q
Surfless said:
Weirdly me. And not in the truest sense of the word.

This is a dreadful season. Truly, wholeheartedly garbage.

My issue is that I just don't see how things are going to change while the status quo remains in the whole football setup at the club. Lange was paratici was ....back to comolli and arnesen. We do some stuff to strengthen the team, and then just don't do the last bit. You don't get to a champions league final and not back the best manager in a generation. You don't sell bale and buy 5 average players and eriksen and lamela and pretend it's better than it was.

Ange was provided with 3 bonefide centre backs this season when we started the year, no spare left back, no spare right (Spence was not deemed up to it at the time, which is a whole other story). He wasn't backed in the forward line until the last few days of the window and still had Gil and Solomon around the place, taking up cash and a squad number.

We just don't take risks. We are so risk adverse that we are almost the antithesis of our freaking motto. We don't dare and we absolutely don't do.

This permiates the whole club, from the top down.

I'm not a levy hater and I admire so much about where we are but the time has come to our a footballing structure between him and the team, set an objective of winning X or y and then sign the cheques. No bargain basement, no £40m player when Declan rice costs £100m. You're top level business men, go find the cash, find the investment and give one of the poor barstewards we have employed a fighting chance, not a team playing with it's laces tied together.

So in summary, sure Ange has effed a load of stuff up this season. But so did conte, and so did Nuno and so did mourinho and so did Poch and so did avb and so did Sherwood and so did 'arry and so did Juande Ramos. Who won a cup having played dreadful football, lost 14 games and finished on 46 points.

We can't just keep sacking people because we have a broken footballing philosophy. That like fixing the lounge window every six months when you glasses are cracked.
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of this wholeheartedly like you I've been saying we are too risk averse for years. So I do agree with the gist of your post, however Ange is not the man to keep holding of. He lacks basic defensive principles and more damning has an inability to read games and adapt during to make changes.

I would love to keep a manager through thick and thin, its something Levy has usually roostered up if we're honest but Ange is not the right man to stay.
 
thfcsteff said:
Honestly, I'm not sure it's even a conversation at this point. My personal view is that he won't be here in the summer as no-one could survive both a season like this or the huge waves of pressurized and oft-negative energy circulating the club. So whether it is our choice or his, I fully expect him to be gone regardless of anything.
Click to expand...
This read like in an ideal world you keep him. I truly don't see what you see in him that deserves another go. I get Poch, Harry, Nuni or even Turbo Tim but Ange? There are so many gaps in his delivery if the task required I can't quite fathom why you'd want to let fail again.
 
thfcsteff said:
An excellent post IMO. In fact, for me personally, this is the best and most balanced post on our current situation I've read in ages. I'm interested to know how many people take the time read it properly as opposed to decide within secionds that it doesn't fit their own specific opinions on whomever.
Click to expand...
I agree with the post and of course removing Ange doesn’t solve the overarching issues with the club( in my opinion), however it doesn’t mask the issue that the immediate issue is the ineptitude of our manager
 
He’s been backed more than any other manager under ENIC.

There are no excuses for him.

It’s clear we spending more now the stadium is up and running, and the strength of the squad shows that.
 
Bishop said:
This read like in an ideal world you keep him. I truly don't see what you see in him that deserves another go. I get Poch, Harry, Nuni or even Turbo Tim but Ange? There are so many gaps in his delivery if the task required I can't quite fathom why you'd want to let fail again.
Click to expand...

No, not what I intended at all. I was simply saying that I don't think anyone has to worry about him still being manager come pre-season training, because from every possible angle you could view it, I don't see a way he survives even if we win the Europa.
 
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billyiddo said:
It's a post that tries to absolve the manager of blame for producing the worst team performance in living memory because the club didn't manage to do all of the transfer work required when rebuilding the squad within a year.
Click to expand...

The postee clearly acknowledges Ange has fudged it, however it's a post that details there are other systemic issues in how we operate which need fixing if we want anyone to succeed here.
 
During the second half ot the match last night it looked like the coaching staff behind Ange were jumping up and and down shouting instructions and encouragement to the players. Ange was statuesque, think he hardly moved at all. The players (Poro at Richie) started to bicker amongst themselves. Silence of the crowd was more damming than the boos. We seemed to lack confidence, composure and creativity.

Contrast that with the Forest support (I know they have something to sing about) and Nuno constantly communicating with his players. Even if we do win the EL there are a lot of changes needed throughout the club. Its not just Ange, but he really doesnt do himself any favours.
 
Raziel said:
The status quo at this club has been European football, being in the top 6, 15 out of last 19 seasons, not being out of top 8 since 2008.

The outlier in all of your pitch is Ange. None of Poch, Conte, Jose, AVB, Sherwood, none of these guys finished outside the top 8. Somehow the thing you think are holding us back gave those guys the tools to be "almost" there. Ange has gotten more than almost all of them, 300M and all the fudging leeway in the world, and he's going to finish 16th or 17th with the worst league record in the club's history.

If this guy was 8th or even with a shot of finishing 8th, your view might hold water but it's (being polite) delusional.

Honestly, no fudging idea how/why people are deflecting from this guy, jesus, Harry & Poch at least gave us a few good years, this guy has literally given us 10 games followed by 18 months of absolute misery and you think it's because he didn't get LB cover?
Click to expand...

The outlier of your comments here are those horrendous injuries we suffered for several months which destroyed our squad and forced us to the outer limits of our playing staff. I know I know 'no excuses' but there are reasons. Yes, he has fuvcked some things up obviously (his record shows that) but people are conveniently forgetting/not allowing for those injuries currently as the post-mortems are being written. And none of the managers you mentioned had an injury crisis like this. In fact the closest was Poch in the first-half of 2019, and as I keep on saying (and will continue to say whenever it comes up) what the geezer did in getting us into the top 4 again AND to a CL Final despite a really rocky few months was nothing short of incredible.

You call it 'deflection' I call it an acknowledgement that there are a series of issues afoot and someone choosing to discuss them instead of stating the same old 'Ange is brick' stuff which let's face it has been done to death.

One of Ange's worst decisions this season IMO, was making a fist of the league cup, a trophy which is increasingly irrelevant and can actually cause great issues if you go deep. He should've done what every other manager in recent times has done and fudged it off...who knows, we might've crawled into the 'magical 8th' had he not had those games to deal with from Sept/October on.

Harry gave us a few good years, Poch gave us a genuine title-challenging side on a consistent basis and got us to Madrid; I don't put the two in the same bracket of 'a few good years' personally, but there we go, horses for courses I suppose...

...as for that last sentence, come on now, that's just being glib and cheeky really. Why is it in these parts that unless you stand there with your shirt off screaming 'USELESS CVUNT' really loudly at Postecoglu and blaming him for every last drop of problems at the club, you're considered an apologist? As the Cro-Mags once sang, it must be a "Sign Of The Times"...
 
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