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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 77 45.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 93 54.7%
  • Total voters
    170
Bedfordspurs said:
They got a lucky goal from a player who should have been red carded
Joys of covid football
Laporte took out Moura IIRC in the first half then Kane and eventually got a yellow
Two were reds
Ref was awful
And yeah they battered us but we defended really well
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Ah yeah, I forgot about the Laporte thing, he shouldn’t have been on the pitch when he scored. We were still very weak though.
 
veryoldspur said:
Of course there are isolated incidents, there always will be. I would point out that it happens in reverse as well. There are plenty of places a white person wouldn't dare go after dark, Tottenham being one of them. The fact is you live in just about the most tolerant country in the world, it's time to stop moaning about a tiny minority and see the glass full.
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Tottenham? Come on now. One of the most mulit-cultural places in London.
 
Legohamster said:
Is it hindsight when it's what was being said at the time?

Sounds like another excuse

Last season not enough games
This year to many games
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Another excuse? He literally said they got it wrong at the start of the season.

''My inkling is we probably got the start of the year wrong,” Postecoglou said in an interview with Australian broadcaster Optus Sport. “It is becoming increasingly challenging for footballers these days. They don’t get a traditional break and I just think we went into the season really hard. We probably underestimated the challenges of Europe this year with your two extra games and having a deep cup run. All those kinds of things and you add to the mix that we lost key players early on.''

He literally is owning it, and for the past couple of months at least the way in which players have been used and how they have been bought back from injury has been visibly different. Literally whatever he says will be used against him in certain quarters and it's pretty sad to see really....
 
tommysvr said:
I don't understand how people read/hear this and think he's talking about things that happened in October/November.
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1. I don't think they are?
2. He'd have to define what he means by 'traditional break' because the rules on the amount of time a player has to have off in the close season have been around a while. The amount of time a player gets in rest (especially around an international tournament year) is pretty well signposted...so it's not something to be surprised by and it's there to be navigated.
 
harr1984 said:
Another excuse? He literally said they got it wrong at the start of the season.

''My inkling is we probably got the start of the year wrong,” Postecoglou said in an interview with Australian broadcaster Optus Sport. “It is becoming increasingly challenging for footballers these days. They don’t get a traditional break and I just think we went into the season really hard. We probably underestimated the challenges of Europe this year with your two extra games and having a deep cup run. All those kinds of things and you add to the mix that we lost key players early on.''

He literally is owning it, and for the past couple of months at least the way in which players have been used and how they have been bought back from injury has been visibly different. Literally whatever he says will be used against him in certain quarters and it's pretty sad to see really....
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This.
 
Bullet said:
Agreed, and I'd like to direct a huge "I TOLD YOU SO" at those posters that disagreed with me when I said umpteen times at the start of the season that we needed to rotate more, and that players were being flogged until they broke.



And @thfcsteff please stop it with the Captain Hindsight nonsense, it is not hindsight.
Likewise on the pod when Milo said Ange was running Udogie and Porro into the ground and Djed hardly got a look in, you said that it was an intangible and couldn't be discussed because Djed later got injured, which is illogical: https://shows.acast.com/5ff4636ed6e3f1135f46f0cb/67e9c6ee5fb59eadfc74a682?seek=1470
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Here are the two sequences you are trying to refer to:

ONE

“So, I mean, I think that's what Andrzej is doing. I think, you know, you've also got to bear in mind, you know, he played him against Coventry in the League Cup, and then he was injured after that, and he was out for a few weeks. It's not really until December this season where he really gets a chance in the League.”

TWO

“I suppose the counter-argument to that is that he played well against Coventry. I mean, he was one of the few bright sparks in one of the few positives from that game. And, you know, also whilst he's doing this, we're running Poro and Udoggy into the ground, aren't we?”

“So, yeah, I think the counter-argument to that would be, you know, if it was it to our detriment that he was treating Djed in this way, and could we have made more use of him during this period? I think it would probably be the counter-argument to that.

Well, that's an intangible, isn't it? I mean, look, as you said, he got injured shortly thereafter. So the question of rotation probably is not even one that we can really get too deeply into, because there was an injury after that.”

Let me further add, up to Coventry in the cup, we had played four games since the start of the season. Spence had featured for 15 league minutes in one (I'll spare you the two min appearance). After that Coventry match he made two 40+ min appearances before the injury. So where we (as in Milo and I) were wrong is that he was being used more than we remembered.

Seriously, the levels of antagonism and 'I told you so' have got silly. BTW if you criticize, get it right. I did not say 'couldn't be discussed'.

Finally, players being flogged is something our pod has spoken about for a long time. The problem is football's in general, not just Ange Postecoglu or Mikel Arteta's. As for your dislike of the 'Hindsight' reference, what would you have said if he was getting the same results with even more rotation at the start of the season? Would it possibly have been along the lines of 'you play your best players when fit?'
As has been said by others, I suspect he's referencing a few more things than the one you're claiming a victory lap for.
 
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Mr Gogolak said:
First Spurs shirt I bought had Anderton's name on it. The kid that still lives in me will never accept to see him described as 'decent', Sir (to be clear: it's a semi tongue-in-cheek comment - to each their own, but every time I see his name, I remember the enthusiasm I felt when I watched him as a teenager and defending him is my way to say 'thank you').
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Anderton was quality, absolutely top level player.........
 
Finney Is Back said:
If he simply repeated that and went 5th place, trophy in every two seasons from then on then he would be Spurs greatest ever manager by a big margin. ;)

The hypothetical cup win is extremely pertinent to the conversation as the whole point was that if (and I agree it is a big IF) Spurs happen to win the Europa League this season then it would be madness for anything other than the manager to continue next season.
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Hell just get sacked to some point next season. He doesn't have the pragmatism necesary to succeed over the course of a premier League season. We'd need to see a revaluation and evolution of his tactical approach to succeed.

I'd love him to do that because I otherwise think his overall philosophy is a positive one but he seems unable to make the subtle adjustments needed to actually succeed here.

It feels for me the route for success for Ange is getting an ever increasing quality of player, but I think we will reach the ceiling of what we are willing or able to bring in before Ange gets the quality of player his system requires for actual success.
 
Muttley said:
Whenever we have got CL, I've always looked at the other top 6 clubs that didn't. Those clubs go through their mini-meltdowns and leave that door open for whoever wants to take it. Harry took it at the expense of the emerging City. Poch took it whilst Utd and Arsenal were going through their meltdowns. Chelsea also had the club doctor fiasco whilst Leciester won the league. Next season we came second and had back to back CL campaigns under Poch. Even Conte took that opportunity in his first season.

Ange nearly took it as well. He was very close last season as big clubs had meltdowns and Villa jumped ahead of us to nick it.

If there's one guarantee in life, another chance for Spurs to get back into the CL will appear. We just need to get our brick together like we have a few times in the last decade or so.
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But who cares? What glory is there in winning the "Arsene Wenger top 4 trophy"?
 
billyiddo said:
Ok well then reread my post and swap out 'compete' with 'win' and the point remains the same.
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The problem is that when we get to a position where we can 'compete' the current owners seem to be happy and the cheque book is put away. The truly big teams that do win things do so because their aim is winning, not competing. We need owners who's ambition is to win and not merely 'compete'.
 
Grays_1890 said:
But even in the last 20 years of self loathing, the biggest chances we had, that came in batches of finals and SFs was when we were performing well in the league, thats ultimately what my point is. 2014-2020 epsecially.

I am not for comparing us to City or Chelsea, I used them as an example of false logic of people saying cup wins lead to long periods of success, I mean for them they did but money played a bigger part.

I am for Spurs being Spurs and to say again for those at the back, I wanna win things, I just don't believe the odd cup win every 10 years proves a longer period of success, for me we can do and should aspire to perform well in the league and win the odd cup, not have to choose
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We don't even manage the odd cup win every 10 years. We've won only one trophy under ENIC. A dozen English clubs have won trophies since we last won one.

You can go ahead believing that the odd cup win every 10 years won't result in a longer period of success. I'd rather we actually get a cup win under our belts and then see whether or not that is the case.

One thing is for sure though.... When you have a chairman that proves he prioritises a slim hope of a top 4 finish over actually winning a trophy by sacking a manager who has proven experience in managing teams to Cup final wins, only to replace him with a yes man who has no previous managerial experience in the week leading up to a Cup final, because the trophy laden manager wants to rest players to give us the best possible chance of the winning the thing, whereas the yes man instead says 'yes boss' to playing the first team in midweek.... you know that you're not ever going to need to worry about the longer period of success because the success won't even start!
 
Finney Is Back said:
The problem is that when we get to a position where we can 'compete' the current owners seem to be happy and the cheque book is put away. The truly big teams that do win things do so because their aim is winning, not competing. We need owners who's ambition is to win and not merely 'compete'.
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I agree.

If we were to win the EL , if our owners were really ambitous at that point (yeah, i know) they'd say:

"thanks Ange for getting us this great cup win, you'll forever be in Spurs folklore but here's your P45 we want to hire someone who will build on this great triumph. Best wishes"
 
Finney Is Back said:
We don't even manage the odd cup win every 10 years. We've won only one trophy under ENIC. A dozen English clubs have won trophies since we last won one.

You can go ahead believing that the odd cup win every 10 years won't result in a longer period of success. I'd rather we actually get a cup win under our belts and then see whether or not that is the case.

One thing is for sure though.... When you have a chairman that proves he prioritises a slim hope of a top 4 finish over actually winning a trophy by sacking a manager who has proven experience in managing teams to Cup final wins, only to replace him with a yes man who has no previous managerial experience in the week leading up to a Cup final, because the trophy laden manager wants to rest players to give us the best possible chance of the winning the thing, whereas the yes man instead says 'yes boss' to playing the first team in midweek.... you know that you're not ever going to need to worry about the longer period of success because the success won't even start!
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Of course, but I choose not to look at football through a pure ENIC silo.

I am a firm believer that if you perform better week in week out you should eventually get the gains that consistency affords. Someone posted the stats on here yesterday I think of how it works. I don't buy into the full "we are Spurs so it will never happen that way for us"
 
Finney Is Back said:
The problem is that when we get to a position where we can 'compete' the current owners seem to be happy and the cheque book is put away. The truly big teams that do win things do so because their aim is winning, not competing. We need owners who's ambition is to win and not merely 'compete'.
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We've been spending at a good rate since the stadium has been generating money, no reason to think we won't continue to do so.

But regardless it doesn't change the point being made.
 
billyiddo said:
We've been spending at a good rate since the stadium has been generating money, no reason to think we won't continue to do so.

But regardless it doesn't change the point being made.
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What does make me laugh is the talk about wages
IMO we pay the right level for wages for the level of player we have
We can pay more but the player would need to warrant it
Why would we pay more wages for players who have actually achieved very little
The argument will be that you need to pay more to attract better players and that’s logical, but those players will also have other clubs offering them money and are likely to be clubs winning things (if the player is good enough). We can’t compete that way
 
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