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Levy's Plan

Lemonade Money said:
That's not what I asked.
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The obvious answer is once the new regime are able (or not) to fix the systemic issues inherent to the previous regime.

It's not a flip of a switch just as it wasn't when Levy took over from Sugar. It took 5 years to qualify for Europe and 10 years to qualify for the fabled CL via 4th.

3 to 5 years is a reasonable timeframe to begin to see changes assuming they are actually capable of taking us forward (there is no guarantee that they are).
 
Bishop said:
This is not remembered because finishing in the top 4 didn't mean anything back then. There was no CL place to be had for being 4th best team (not that English teams were even allowed in Europe for the majority of the 80s). This is why for me when people cream themselves about finishing in the top 4 in the modern era or playing in the CL it's such a disengerous take. Top 4 has only even been a thing since 2001/02 when the CL place for a 4th place was introduced coincidentally 1 year after ENIC bought the club.

So for all the lauding of ENIC and Levy it's circumstance just as much as any good operation that created this. None of our previous owners even including the useless Sugar never had a Top 4 finish to aim for as a legitimate means of improving the standing of the club. UEFA created that situation not Levy or ENIC.
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I know. I was just responding to his question as it was phrased like we’ve not had sustained periods of success until Levy came along. I was just pointing out that the 80s was a more successful decade than anything Levy achieved and the even the 90s when we were often useless, we managed multiple trophies and numerous semi finals.
 
DTA said:
Ah the famous 1987 season the season that the 5 year old me decided that I needed to pick a team to support … what the fùck was I thinking… little prìck 5 year old brain caused me decades of pain.

Anyway. We finished 3rd in that year. By the same token or understanding of title challenge we done that 3 times under Levy.

While finishing 4th or higher 7 times

Winning two cups,

reaching 7 finals and

reaching 16 semi finals.

You will have to go back to Fred Bearman who had 40 years in charge to beat that (including the only real glory years we had… the early 60s )

He also built arguably the worlds best stadium which will produce additional revenue streams for decades to come.

Cementing us as the 8th biggest club in the world in terms of revenue a place we have never been before (18th I believe we were before the Levy era- and 15th was the best we ever were pre Levy)
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The commercial side is indisputable. I’m talking about the degradation of the squad over 6-7 years which Levy oversaw.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I know. I was just responding to his question as it was phrased like we’ve not had sustained periods of success until Levy came along. I was just pointing out that the 80s was a more successful decade than anything Levy achieved and the even the 90s when we were often useless, we managed multiple trophies and numerous semi finals.
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Oh I know, I wasn't attacking your post at all. Was supporting it.
 
I don't understand this take - the football landscape has shifted so doing well within that isn't impressive/important because it wasn't a target previously? What?
 
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DTA said:
I didn’t just talk about the Comercial side did I?

I showed you in footballing terms why Levy was a success compared to what came before.
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You talked about the infrastructure, the training ground and the stadium and how Levy implemented additional revenue streams. I’d argue that’s more commercial related than football related, although it is kind of the football side as well technically. I was referring more to the squad building, poor recruitment and poor choices of manager that have left us in the state we currently find ourselves in. I’d like to focus more on the results on the pitch given that we’re a football club and not a hedge fund.
 
billyiddo said:
I don't understand this take - the football landscape has shifted so doing well within that isn't impressive/important because it wasn't a target previously? What?
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I'm saying the landscape changed so those comparing now to then is disingenuous because even if we had finished in exactly the same position and sometimes we did the result was not the same.
 
Bishop said:
I'm saying the landscape changed so those comparing now to then is disingenuous because even if we had finished in exactly the same position and sometimes we did the result was not the same.
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Yeah I get it. 4th back in the 80s would probably have been considered a good season relatively speaking for most clubs but there wasn’t any tangible reward for finishing in the top 4 like there is now.
 
Jurgen the German said:
You talked about the infrastructure, the training ground and the stadium and how Levy implemented additional revenue streams. I’d argue that’s more commercial related than football related, although it is kind of the football side as well technically. I was referring more to the squad building, poor recruitment and poor choices of manager that have left us in the state we currently find ourselves in. I’d like to focus more on the results on the pitch given that we’re a football club and not a hedge fund.
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This what I wrote:

DTA said:
Ah the famous 1987 season the season that the 5 year old me decided that I needed to pick a team to support … what the fùck was I thinking… little prìck 5 year old brain caused me decades of pain.

Anyway. We finished 3rd in that year. By the same token or understanding of title challenge we done that 3 times under Levy.

While finishing 4th or higher 7 times

Winning two cups,

reaching 7 finals and

reaching 16 semi finals.

You will have to go back to Fred Bearman who had 40 years in charge to beat that (including the only real glory years we had… the early 60s )

He also built arguably the worlds best stadium which will produce additional revenue streams for decades to come.

Cementing us as the 8th biggest club in the world in terms of revenue a place we have never been before (18th I believe we were before the Levy era- and 15th was the best we ever were pre Levy)
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There is much more detail about football progression than Comercial success.

Although unless you are on cheat mode (Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea) one leads to other given enough time.
 
Bishop said:
I'm saying the landscape changed so those comparing now to then is disingenuous because even if we had finished in exactly the same position and sometimes we did the result was not the same.
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For me finishing high(er) in the league regardless of top 4 reward is progress as it means that we are following a team that is better/winning more games. I kinda like watching us win more games. In that respect finishing as high as you can has always been a target for clubs.

As a 'self confessed league guy' i would have expected you to be of the same opinion.
 
DTA said:
This what I wrote:



There is much more detail about football progression than Comercial success.

Although unless you are on cheat mode (Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea) one leads to other given enough time.
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Once again, I’m saying the last 6-7 years haven’t been good enough on the football side regardless of what came before it: 6th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th, 17th and 17th.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Once again, I’m saying the last 6-7 years haven’t been good enough on the football side regardless of what came before it: 6th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th, 17th and 17th.
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Within Levys last 6 years we had 4th x 2, 5th x 1, 6th x 1 and European trophy.

My guess is if we have a similar return in the first 6 years post-Levy people will be largely happy.
 
billyiddo said:
For me finishing high(er) in the league regardless of top 4 reward is progress as it means that we are following a team that is better/winning more games. I kinda like watching us win more games. In that respect finishing as high as you can has always been a target for clubs.

As a 'self confessed league guy' i would have expected you to be of the same opinion.
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Progress is indeed progress but I was talking about when people compare Levy's era and talk about CL qualification in comparison to the past, it's not an apples to apples comparison. You didn't get anything for finishing 4th in the 90s. Hell we didn't even qualify for Europe despite finishing 3rd in 87, so when people talk about the financial achievements there is a caveat that the landscape was quite different and that does need to be taken into account.

Just like the landscape for ENIC 2.0 is different to the earlier version due to the 5 places in the CL and the changed league phase. All of these things make a difference and it's disingenuous to pretend that isn't the case.

Finishing 5th today is worth than finishing 5th in 05/06. It makes you more money relatively speaking and has widened the scale of what is seen as successful or not. 5th in 88 was just 5thz 5th in 2026 is a successful season and gets you a rub at the biggest competition in football the next year. These are not the situations.
 
billyiddo said:
Within Levys last 6 years we had 4th x 2, 5th x 1, 6th x 1 and European trophy.

My guess is if we have a similar return in the first 6 years post-Levy people will be largely happy.
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Because now what was once an upper mid table finish is considered successful.
 
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