parklane1
Teddy Sheringham
Fair points, but i still think under Dzerbi he can get him playing to his full ability and if he can do that we will have a top player.
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Cristian Romero
- Thread starter AdamB
- Start date
Fair points, but i still think under Dzerbi he can get him playing to his full ability and if he can do that we will have a top player.
He would walk into a starting position on a United team that just came 3rd, and probably easily be their best defender.
Still think he's gone, we are going to have two incoming CBs (early) plus Vuskovic to navigate, doesn't make sense unless we knew we had sales.
parklane1
Teddy Sheringham
Your are probably right about him going, sad though imo.
Muttley
Mitchell Thomas
But PGMOL should not have any pre-conceived thoughts of this type. Their job is to be neutral, step on that pitch and uphold the laws of the game. What happens in your logic when PGMOL have it in their heads that Van Dijk isn't a dirty player. Do they make a different decision for Romero as they would for VVD when they do exactly the same thing?
This is the crux of the matter in hand.
But we have enough evidence that this does happen, in the same weekends, in almost frame by frame comparisons, and the data backs it up.
- VVD and Gabriel get away with murder compared to Romero
- Smaller players on Spurs side (Gil, Xavi) simply don't get the calls/protection say Grealish got at City, or Saka gets for Scum, lets not even talk about Vic.
I would hesitate to say we are being cheated against, but when one team gets no penalties for them all season (and no away penalties in 3 seasons) while 13 other teams in the league have gotten at least 4, 7 have got more than 6, there is an issue.
Make no mistake, ref's are affected by SAF/Wenger, now Arteta/Klopp's tirades and letters to PMGOL, the real corruption/incompetence question lies around VAR, even if the on field ref is under pressure by occasion/crowd/club, the whole point of VAR is an official not even at the ground, with time and resources to make the right call, ye somehow, time and time again, they fudge up.
Jurgen the German
George Hunt
Officials are supposed to be neutral, but they're human beings and, like everyone else, they'll inevitably have biases and preconceived notions. If referees view Romero as a player who can be reckless, then it's ultimately on Romero to change that perception. I'm not saying that's right, but it's the reality of how these things work.
The truth is that Romero has earned his reputation. It hasn't come out of nowhere. Over the years, he's made a number of needless, stupid and overly aggressive challenges that have left him with very little benefit of the doubt when incidents are reviewed. Referees and VAR officials are always looking at factors such as excessive force and endangering an opponent, and Romero's history is inevitably going to influence how his actions are interpreted.
I agree that players like Van Dijk and Gabriel don't always receive the same level of scrutiny, and that inconsistency is frustrating. But pointing to other players isn't really an answer. Whether or not they're judged fairly doesn't change the fact that Romero has developed a reputation for making reckless challenges, and he's only got himself to blame for that.
robp135
Goran Bunjevcevic
Id love that to be the case. But he has played for Nuno, Conte, Ange, Frank and he has always has the same issues.
robp135
Goran Bunjevcevic
That will change with Gary Neville supporting him.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Luka Modric
So refs have never notice Joelinton is a nasty thug, not reckless or lacking self control, he just likes to hurt people.
But without consistency, the system is never going to be perceived as working.
It amazes me how ignorant the PMGOL has to be to not understand, their inability to provide consistent results (don't care if I agree, just consistent) is what ultimately creates conspiracy theories, corruption/bias noise.
Without that consistency, we are basically saying to Romero, "you need to be more controlled than VVD, Gabriel, Joelinton, Cash, whoever, not because it's the right thing to do or it's the rules, but because it's the rules for you in a Tottenham shirt" and that is utter fudgery
Jurgen the German
George Hunt
Again, I don't disagree with that point, but it doesn't change the fact that Romero has developed a reputation for being a dirty player, which seems to be the part many people are reluctant to acknowledge or accept.
Whether other players get away with similar challenges is a separate discussion. The inconsistency of officiating doesn't negate Romero's track record of reckless tackles and unnecessary aggression.
parklane1
Teddy Sheringham
This, I really hope that one day we see VAR scrapped.
Muttley
Mitchell Thomas
Exactly. We have a situation though where Romero doesn't deserve to get away with things. He just needs to be joined on the naughty step by more players if the refs were doing their jobs correctly. At least, it's more that way round than the other.
As you know, I'm not really ever advocating single root causes. If Romero is to stay then he needs to clean up his act. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be throwing the kitchen sink at PGMOL in parallel. They are disgustingly bad.
Muttley
Mitchell Thomas
As I just said above, both things can be true at the same time. We still need to throw everything we've got at Howard Webb and PGMOL. We shouldn't have to put up with the nonsense from that team.
I've said before, here's what we should do
- Start measuring the referee's performance against the laws of the game. Get that data visible.
- Start having a pitch-side analyst with tablet mic'd up and live on YouTube diuring our matches. Get them to explain every right and wrong decision through the single eyes of the law.
- Make objective but public assessments about the referees and get them published online every single week.
If Spurs led the way and did this then the refereeing world would start turning differently.
Jurgen the German
George Hunt
Oh, absolutely. We should be complaining about every decision that goes against us, just as Arteta and others do for their clubs.
That said, it doesn't change my view of Romero. I don't think he'll ever completely eliminate the overly aggressive, sometimes brainless challenges from his game. At this stage, it's simply part of who he is as a player. The same aggression that makes him such a fierce competitor is also what occasionally leads him to cross the line.
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
Agreed. Very sad in several senses.
Bishop
Les Ferdinand
The thing with Joelinton is he's rarely rash he makes strong challenges that sit on the border and yes he is given that benefit of the doubt. Romero makes rash challenges and that's why he gets judged the way he is (often unfairly imo)
The problem is how do you measure this? The majority of decisions have a large degree of subjectivity and context to them. Even on this board we don't all agree on whether something was a pen or a foul etc even if it's in our favour. So what would these referee decisions be judged against? It's not really possible to determine a specific foul objectively because there will always be subtle differences between any specific challenge.
Bishop
Les Ferdinand
I'm not so bothered because despite me rating him individually I don't rate the performance and results of the starting pairing and given the time they've had together now is a good time to move in and try something different because it hasn't worked up till now.
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DeanoAustin
Jack Jull
The data is already visible. PGMOL publish stats about how many VAR calls are deemed right and wrong. Even then, as @Bishop says, there is subjectivity with some decisions. You can see that when the 5 man panel reviews the decisions - it's often 3-2 or 4-1.
The pitch side analyst? Ah stop. The refs already explain some of the decisions and, to be honest, it's a bit of a charade. On TV, the commentators are always made aware of why a decision has been made by VAR.
How would the club make "objective public assessments"? They have a vested interest.
I find your posts interesting generally and hate playing the man rather than the ball but your obsession with Howard Webb and PGMOL is a bit much IMO.
clownfoot
Jose Dominguez
I think his agent is touting him around no doubt, but realistically who is going to sign him? Quality player but VAR is the end of players like Romero. No prem team would take him because of his reputation.
Signed a new contract last season and I’d be surprised if there was a buyout clause as Levy would’ve been involved in negotiations. He’s not going to go cheaply so limits which clubs around Europe can sign him. We could be in the position where he wants out, club have agreed he can leave but there are no offers on the table. Would be some instagram post he makes should that happen
Signed a new contract last season and I’d be surprised if there was a buyout clause as Levy would’ve been involved in negotiations. He’s not going to go cheaply so limits which clubs around Europe can sign him. We could be in the position where he wants out, club have agreed he can leave but there are no offers on the table. Would be some instagram post he makes should that happen