Frank Give him time or get rid?

[Muttley]

It was meant to be one statement as an either or, as you’re right we don’t know exactly his confidence. But my main point is that when things have gone against him (and I do think he’s had bad luck) he doesn’t seem like he has the personality to turn it around. It does feel very Moyes at United.

These are my perceptions but I've always felt Frank wants to just take the data and experience from the bad result and then keep working at things on the training ground. He then believes over time these moments will dissipate and we'll have a better permanence about us. At least I did for most of his tenure. He is perhaps showing signs of being worn down by the experience in his body language and interviews.

I reckon he is dreading the Dortmund game. He has nowhere to manoeuvre at this stage with the injury crisis especially if the 50:50s go against him on the recent knocks we took.

 

[Mikey10]

These are my perceptions but I've always felt Frank wants to just take the data and experience from the bad result and then keep working at things on the training ground. He then believes over time these moments will dissipate and we'll have a better permanence about us. At least I did for most of his tenure. He is perhaps showing signs of being worn down by the experience in his body language and interviews.

I reckon he is dreading the Dortmund game. He has nowhere to manoeuvre at this stage with the injury crisis especially if the 50:50s go against him on the recent knocks we took.

I thought he looked completely wrung out at the end yesterday.

There was a moment just after the whistle as he shook hands with the officials; Vicario was still berating them about the goal from the corner and he said something to Frank, presumably to try to get him to join in. TF just shrugged and walked off. He looked broken.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I thought he looked completely wrung out at the end yesterday.

There was a moment just after the whistle as he shook hands with the officials; Vicario was still berating them about the goal from the corner and he said something to Frank, presumably to try to get him to join in. TF just shrugged and walked off. He looked broken.

he probably knows he’s out of his depth (as well as knowing that it was just standard Vicario brick goalkeeping).

 

[Aldo]

I was Ange In for longer than i should have been as at least he had a way he wanted to play even if the execution was poor.

Frank looks clueless. There’s no obvious plan, he’s look broken and is going downhill fast.

He’s out of his depth, and as the job has proven to be too big for him I’m afraid we need to pull the trigger.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

These are my perceptions but I've always felt Frank wants to just take the data and experience from the bad result and then keep working at things on the training ground. He then believes over time these moments will dissipate and we'll have a better permanence about us. At least I did for most of his tenure. He is perhaps showing signs of being worn down by the experience in his body language and interviews.

I reckon he is dreading the Dortmund game. He has nowhere to manoeuvre at this stage with the injury crisis especially if the 50:50s go against him on the recent knocks we took.

I think that’s fair. And I do think if he’d gotten some results in recent weeks, the idea of being the balanced, sage, wise person who keeps on the level in the chaos of the premier league would be seen as a really good thing. I also think, if he had the time to really establish his culture so that his way was ‘seen’ to be the right way by players that were really bought into it, it would also work.

I think he hasn’t had the time to establish his culture, and have the players bought into it. And so I think when things happen, the players are probably looking for someone who judges situations differently (the Vicario example here, or the DJed / VDV thing after Chelsea). They are perhaps looking for a leader who gets them, but also who they understand. And I think they are perhaps reading balance right now as not enough, whether it’s not angry enough at the right moments, not inspirational enough at the right moments, I don’t know. But because I actually like Frank, I try and veer away from describing this situation as one where he is just bad at his job. I genuinely think it is that he is very different from what came before, and the players were bought into that style.

It could have so closely swung the other way for him. We beat United, beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine away without a bricky VAR call, beat Sunderland at home, then we’re probably going into some of these other recent games with more confidence, we probably beat West Ham. I really felt I could see the green shoots. But it hasn’t happened, and now he probably won’t get the time.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

You have to feel sorry for Frank. A lot of people wondered how Brentford would fare without him and he would fare without Brentford's excellent scouting system.

It just takes one quick look at the table to know the answer. It will take him years to rebuild his reputation, assuming he ever does.

 

[Gutter Boy]

You have to feel sorry for Frank. A lot of people wondered how Brentford would fare without him and he would fare without Brentford's excellent scouting system.

It just takes one quick look at the table to know the answer. It will take him years to rebuild his reputation, assuming he ever does.

He'll be at Palace in a few weeks and doing fine again

 

[Mrs Vert]

I remember there were two games, maybe on the bounce but in interviews I think both Salah and maybe a Fulham player said the same thing in post match, about them knowing exactly how we would play and how to exploit it was the worst kept secret in football.

Anyone with eyes could work out what to do

 

[SteveAWOL]

We have 9 points from our last 10 games. This seems way more worrying than last year.

We picked up 5 points from 10 games during the corresponding period of last season though… whilst the first choice CBs were out during that time at least we had Son, Solanke, Maddison, Kulusevski, Sarr, Bissouma, Udogie and Johnson available…

 

[Lemonade Money]

We picked up 5 points from 10 games during the corresponding period of last season though… whilst the first choice CBs were out during that time at least we had Son, Solanke, Maddison, Kulusevski, Sarr, Bissouma, Udogie and Johnson available…

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Did we have a better start?

 

[SteveAWOL]

Did we have a better start?

First 12 PL games 2024/25: Won 6 Drawn 1 Lost 5

First 12 PL games 2025/26: Won 5 Drawn 3 Lost 4

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

We picked up 5 points from 10 games during the corresponding period of last season though… whilst the first choice CBs were out during that time at least we had Son, Solanke, Maddison, Kulusevski, Sarr, Bissouma, Udogie and Johnson available…

View attachment 21326

Also our first choice goalkeeper out right?

Also what did our benches look like for those games?

Also did we have European games to play with the narrowest squad imaginable?

 

[SteveAWOL]

Also our first choice goalkeeper out right?

Also what did our benches look like for those games?

Also did we have European games to play with the narrowest squad imaginable?

Yup, Vicario missed December + January whilst Dragusin and Gray played CB for most of those games.

Udogie + Porro + Spence + Reguilon were in those squads at full back.

Bissouma + Sarr + Bergvall + Kulusevski + Maddison were the options in midfield.

Solanke + Son + Johnson + Richarlison + Werner + Lankshear + Moore were the attacking options.

Rangers was the only Europa League fixture over that 10 week period last season.

 

[Welshspur60]

View attachment 21325

Looking at those figures, maybe get Tim in till the end of the season?

 

[Welshspur60]

View attachment 21325

How the hell is he still in a job?

 

[SteveAWOL]

How the hell is he still in a job?

I guess we’ve just become accustomed to WHL being Three Point Lane for all comers over the past 15 months…

Ange’s last 14 PL home games: Won 2 Drawn 3 Lost 9 For 20 Against 31 Points 9 PPG 0.64

Ipswich 1-2
Fulham 1-1
Chavski 3-4
Liverpool 3-6
Wolves 2-2
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 1-2
Leicester 1-2
ManUre 1-0
Emirates Marketing Project 0-1
Bournemouth 2-2
Southampton 3-1
Forest 1-2
Palace 0-2
Brighton 1-4

Frank’s first 11 PL home games: Won 2 Drawn 3 Lost 6 For 13 Against 14 Points 9 PPG 0.82

Burnley 3-0
Bournemouth 0-1
Wolves 1-1
Villa 1-2
Chavski 0-1
Manure 2-2
Fulham 1-2
Brentford 2-0
Liverpool 1-2
Sunderland 1-1
Wet Spam 1-2

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Yup, Vicario missed December + January whilst Dragusin and Gray played CB for most of those games.

Udogie + Porro + Spence + Reguilon were in those squads at full back.

Bissouma + Sarr + Bergvall + Kulusevski + Maddison were the options in midfield.

Solanke + Son + Johnson + Richarlison + Werner + Lankshear + Moore were the attacking options.

Rangers was the only Europa League fixture over that 10 week period last season.

This doesn’t look right, I remember Moore being out from October until after January for a start, Udogie went off injured in the Forest game and that was weeks at a minimum. This is just off the top of my head.

I am sure some of those players were available for some of those games over that period, but my point was for any individual game we had a bare bones squad. And the moment we welcomed one player back we would lose another. Everyone was in the red zone and we had basically zero depth. To the point where we played an absolutely unfit Sarr at home to Leicester.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Yup, Vicario missed December + January whilst Dragusin and Gray played CB for most of those games.

Udogie + Porro + Spence + Reguilon were in those squads at full back.

Bissouma + Sarr + Bergvall + Kulusevski + Maddison were the options in midfield.

Solanke + Son + Johnson + Richarlison + Werner + Lankshear + Moore were the attacking options.

Rangers was the only Europa League fixture over that 10 week period last season.

Also the Roma game was just before the fixtures you listed.

And the Hoffenheim and Elfsborg games immediately followed the fixtures you listed. So all three of them would absolutely contribute to the fixture congestion on a stretched squad. Not to mention the fact that the Christmas period includes 2 seperate runs of 3 games in 7 days when we had effectively zero rotation possible.

 

[SteveAWOL]

This doesn’t look right, I remember Moore being out from October until after January for a start, Udogie went off injured in the Forest game and that was weeks at a minimum. This is just off the top of my head.

I am sure some of those players were available for some of those games over that period, but my point was for any individual game we had a bare bones squad. And the moment we welcomed one player back we would lose another. Everyone was in the red zone and we had basically zero depth. To the point where we played an absolutely unfit Sarr at home to Leicester.

Yeah, Moore came back from illness in mid January but Udogie was available for all but 3 of those games. Whilst Reguilon was out of form he surely could’ve done an adequate job against that infamously bad Southampton team so that Destiny’s hamstrings might’ve had some respite. Plus I recall in the OMT how bewildered many were that despite going 5-0 up in the first half we didn’t give Maddison or Solanke a breather until around 80 minutes.

Also the Roma game was just before the fixtures you listed.

And the Hoffenheim and Elfsborg games immediately followed the fixtures you listed. So all three of them would absolutely contribute to the fixture congestion on a stretched squad. Not to mention the fact that the Christmas period includes 2 seperate runs of 3 games in 7 days when we had effectively zero rotation possible.

True but if you’re going to include Roma and Elfborg in last season’s congestion then surely Frank gets some slack for having to deal with PSG and Dortmund bookending this almost equally appalling run on PL form? Plus we had Villa in FA Cup which is tad more difficult a draw than Tamworth.

At least we had some attackers to rotate between back then and Son + Solanke + Kulusevski + Maddison would all immediately improve this current team which now has absolutely no slack left in attack or midfield.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Yeah, Moore came back from illness in mid January but Udogie was available for all but 3 of those games. Whilst Reguilon was out of form he surely could’ve done an adequate job against that infamously bad Southampton team so that Destiny’s hamstrings might’ve had some respite. Plus I recall in the OMT how bewildered many were that despite going 5-0 up in the first half we didn’t give Maddison or Solanke a breather until around 80 minutes.

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True but if you’re going to include Roma and Elfborg in last season’s congestion then surely Frank gets some slack for having to deal with PSG and Dortmund bookending this almost equally appalling run on PL form? Plus we had Villa in FA Cup which is tad more difficult a draw than Tamworth.

At least we had some attackers to rotate between back then and Son + Solanke + Kulusevski + Maddison would all immediately improve this current team which now has absolutely no slack left in attack or midfield.

Moore had a virus and we treated him understandably with kid gloves when he was back. He wasn’t an option.

Reguillon was also not really part of the squad. We only played him against Villa towards the end of the season because we were fully tanking the league to prioritise the Europa. I also note that the Southampton game was I think the first time Spence was trusted in the league to start right? Before that the staff were testing to see whether he truly had his head on straight.

I don’t think Frank needs as much slack because he has at least always some rotation options each match and crucially has been able to play actual centre backs in their actual position in the pitch.