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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Teams with the benefit of being a settled and stable side for longer than we are and one who are living off the fumes of their promotion. That said there are players from all three of those sides I take over some of ours all day long.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think I had the conversation with you before about Bodo? I loved them as they're a yard stick. If Bodo can do it, then anyone can. I'm talking about that simple (well appears it is to them) action of passing it to each other with fluidity.
Hold them up versus any club in the PL and they're minnows in stature and budget.

I think at the time you stated that they signed specialists to play that way.
The kind of passing game I see them play is just fluid, it doesn't require any pass wizardry ala pirlo, modric, berkovic, kinkladze, Kane.

All of our players must be capable of that level of passing (they're constantly doing it in rondo's every bloody day).

But I'm not seeing any (or very little )pass and move, triangles, or any movement by the recipient that begs for the pass. (ie makes the passers mind up for him).

LASTLY. Our 'pass appreciation' is so poor. Pass appreciation is playing the ball into the flow of the person receiving. If you can save them any extra touch (or two) that's excellent. Even our 'horseshoe' passes (the basic simple ones across the back) aren't delivered in this way. (I was really noticing this in the Fulham game)

And I'm sure, this not going well, feeds into the players just plainly not enjoying playing.
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On the Bodø thing they have at least one midfielder who is rather good at it on his own, in the national team. "Too good" for them, but still there for various reasons

But they've worked towards that over time. The focus has been on performances improving over time with a clear plan, results will follow. They played us off the park with a style, an identity being ingrained over time.

What are we working towards? How do we want to play given time? What steps are we seeing in that direction?

I can only hope that the current struggles are in part difficulties trying to implement something we're not yet quite capable of. For sure confidence and a lack of enjoyment is part of it.
 
DubSpur said:
Sunderland have a practically new side with what they bought during the summer, hardly a more settled side than ours.
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I think we could ding dong back and forth with all kinds of examples from each side of 'its working' 'its not working'.

Ange had it going great out the gate....then?
Amorin might be getting something right...but its not a given and it's looked pretty awful for a good stretch
Glasner certainly had to get over some rough patches before getting Palace looking good .
Slot smashed it straight away...and now, anyone's guess.

And so on and so on.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think we could ding dong back and forth with all kinds of examples from each side of 'its working' 'its not working'.

Ange had it going great out the gate....then?
Amorin might be getting something right...but its not a given and it's looked pretty awful for a good stretch
Glasner certainly had to get over some rough patches before getting Palace looking good .
Slot smashed it straight away...and now, anyone's guess.

And so on and so on.
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Exactly this

I think what is clear is no one does the business straight off the gate and hits a peak season one unless you are going into a very very very good or very very very well financed set up.
 
braineclipse said:
On the Bodø thing they have at least one midfielder who is rather good at it on his own, in the national team. "Too good" for them, but still there for various reasons

But they've worked towards that over time. The focus has been on performances improving over time with a clear plan, results will follow. They played us off the park with a style, an identity being ingrained over time.

What are we working towards? How do we want to play given time? What steps are we seeing in that direction?

I can only hope that the current struggles are in part difficulties trying to implement something we're not yet quite capable of. For sure confidence and a lack of enjoyment is part of it.
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Well that's the golden gift for any manager...time.

I'm sure it took the Bodo manager a while to convince the Bodo squad...this is how we do it. Be brave and have confidence.
My point is, I'm not seeing them do anything special technically. They just learn to be there for each other, trust each other, and learn how to pass the ball accurately over pretty ordinary distances.
All to the coaches instructions/game plan.
And what reenforces my point is it's all very well doing it in their own league BUT they've taken it to the big teams in Europe and shown they can carry it out effectively at that level.

Of course Frank might not be wanting to play like Bodo, I'm just pointing out that any system requires decent passing, and our footballers must be levels above the majority of theirs, so where's the issue? Is it the coaching of structure/patterns that facilitate/encourage passing or a mental problem of some kind?

I will say I have no idea how long it took Bodo to become good?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Well that's the golden gift for any manager...time.

I'm sure it took the Bodo manager a while to convince the Bodo squad...this is how we do it. Be brave and have confidence.
My point is, I'm not seeing them do anything special technically. They just learn to be there for each other, trust each other, and learn how to pass the ball accurately over pretty ordinary distances.
All to the coaches instructions/game plan.
And what reenforces my point is it's all very well doing it in their own league BUT they've taken it to the big teams in Europe and shown they can carry it out effectively at that level.

Of course Frank might not be wanting to play like Bodo, I'm just pointing out that any system requires decent passing, and our footballers must be levels above the majority of theirs, so where's the issue? Is it the coaching of structure/patterns that facilitate/encourage passing or a mental problem of some kind?

I will say I have no idea how long it took Bodo to become good?
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You again have it nailed

Whoever comes to Spurs and is a success, and that might not be Frank, but if someone is going to be a long term success, then its going to be over a period of time and likely after a period of most of that time
 
Mikey10 said:
Odd that it was never really mentioned until we won the trophy. Would almost make you feel that it was developed after that as an excuse for 22 PL defeats, and in a vain attempt for someone to keep their job.
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I don't think that is the case at all. I think several of us were talking about us clearly resting players in the league to go all out for the Cup as the we started to get players back from injury and we had basically secured our place in the PL with the league wins against (Frank's) Brentford and Man Utd.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Unai Emery who had won 3 Europa League titles as well as the league and 4 cups in France before he went to Arsenal
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Which has no relation to the point being made

The comparison of what they have won respectively doesn't have a bearing on there being a "feeling of snobbery" if anything it just highlights the ridiculousness of Arsenal fans.

Point being their fanbase were cnuts to him and looked down their nose at him as they didn't feel he was up to it, which has the exact same feeling we are doing here based on the plethora of comments
 
Grays_1890 said:
You again have it nailed

Whoever comes to Spurs and is a success, and that might not be Frank, but if someone is going to be a long term success, then its going to be over a period of time and likely after a period of most of that time
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That’s literally in your sentence though
A long term success has to be here long term to meet that criteria 😜
 
thfcsteff said:
Just watched Frank's presser today.

First of all, the amount of pressers these managers have to do is ludicrous. Ludicrous!

Secondly, I have to say I thought he handled every single question with honesty, calm, grace, and no equivocation. He is generally great with the media.

Thirdly, he made it very clear in response to one question regarding style that he is not going to be wedded to one specific style, and that he will continue to pursue his beliefs/approach to matches which involves a lot of 'opposition mitigation' as opposed to 'we are who we are'.

Fourthly, he did make a decent point about the compression of matches not giving him and his staff much time between games right now to work on things.

Finally, it reinforced my overriding thought that support of Thomas Frank should be there as long as he is our manager, yet questions need to be asked. And the main one (again IMO) is IF you believe he deserves time, then you must be aligned to his vision. And that vision looks to me to be creating a better version of the type of football he is having us play now. My personal dilemma remains the fact that I do not like or enjoy said-style, and I also do not believe he can 'upscale' to the levels I believe a Spurs manager should look to be at.
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IMO these two things contradict each other.... If not getting much time between games to work on things then surely better to try to instill one style of play first before looking to keep on making changes depending on the opposition? That can surely come later?
 
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