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So, what happened today?

LutonSpurs said:
He's not anyone's hero. He's trying to appeal to the vote of people like yourself. Who are angry about nothing.
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Not sure he really needs to do that. They’ve just won an election pretty handily. More likely he has read the room of the country and the majority of people would agree with the supreme court’s decision.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Not sure he really needs to do that. They’ve just won an election pretty handily. More likely he has read the room of the country and the majority of people would agree with the supreme court’s decision.
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A majority doesn't make it right. A majority is people who believe the lies the Sun and the Mail peddle daily.
 
LutonSpurs said:
A majority doesn't make it right. A majority is people who believe the lies the Sun and the Mail peddle daily.
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But it doesn’t always come from bigotry or with bad intentions which is often the implication in these debates. The vast majority of people in this country are tolerant people, I honestly believe that. You also have to consider that this is relatively new territory and attitudes don’t change overnight. It took time for gay marriage to become the law of the land. Now you see gay/lesbian couples on tv all the time in adverts and in tv shows which I see as a sign of progress, admittedly with work still to be done.
 
Today, St George's Day, where we celebrate the Turkish migrant worker who never came to Britain

He'd be banned from Britain now, actually

Always fascinated at how the patron saint of England had never visited England

St George was born in Cappadocia, Turkey. He was killed by Roman Emperor Diocletian for refusing to denounce Christianity and instead worship the Roman gods in 303 AD

By the 5th century, churches were being dedicated to him in Jerusalem, Egypt, and Syria

By the 6th century, his name appeared in Christian texts across Europe, and he was revered as a military saint, a protector of soldiers and defenders of the faith

Churches in his name were established in the region, and St. George became the patron saint of many Palestinian Christian communities

During the 11th-13th century crusades, English knights fighting in the Holy Land heard stories of St George appearing in visions to help Christian armies. He was seen as a divine warrior—ideal for a nation romanticizing knighthood and bravery

St George became the patron saint in the 14th century when Edward III adopted him as the emblem of the Order of the Garter

By the 15th century, St George had eclipsed earlier English saints like St Edmund. In 1415, his feast day (April 23) was made a national feast day in England

Technically, without a British passport or visa St George wouldn't be able to come to the UK today. However, as he was being persecuted, he could claim asylum in the UK under the 195 1 Refugee Convention
 
Jurgen the German said:
But it doesn’t always come from bigotry or with bad intentions which is often the implication in these debates. The vast majority of people in this country are tolerant people, I honestly believe that. You also have to consider that this is relatively new territory and attitudes don’t change overnight. It took time for gay marriage to become the law of the land. Now you see gay/lesbian couples on tv all the time in adverts and in tv shows which I see as a sign of progress, admittedly with work still to be done.
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You can repeat this as many times as you like, but that simply doesn't make it true.

Do you think many people when speaking from a place of bigotry / bad intentions actually admit it when called out? "Oh yeah now you mention it, I am just being hateful against a vulnerable group of people, thanks for pointing it out!, I'll definitely change my ways!"

Edit - I did just notice you put "always", which makes it a fairer comment than I originally thought, but it's still guesswork.

Maybe JK Rowling embraces everyone for who they are and just happened to put a trans woman murdering women in the women's bathroom in her book because it's a entertaining premise, and a bunch of mouthbreathers took it too seriously. Who knows!
 
LutonSpurs said:
Today, St George's Day, where we celebrate the Turkish migrant worker who never came to Britain

He'd be banned from Britain now, actually

Always fascinated at how the patron saint of England had never visited England

St George was born in Cappadocia, Turkey. He was killed by Roman Emperor Diocletian for refusing to denounce Christianity and instead worship the Roman gods in 303 AD

By the 5th century, churches were being dedicated to him in Jerusalem, Egypt, and Syria

By the 6th century, his name appeared in Christian texts across Europe, and he was revered as a military saint, a protector of soldiers and defenders of the faith

Churches in his name were established in the region, and St. George became the patron saint of many Palestinian Christian communities

During the 11th-13th century crusades, English knights fighting in the Holy Land heard stories of St George appearing in visions to help Christian armies. He was seen as a divine warrior—ideal for a nation romanticizing knighthood and bravery

St George became the patron saint in the 14th century when Edward III adopted him as the emblem of the Order of the Garter

By the 15th century, St George had eclipsed earlier English saints like St Edmund. In 1415, his feast day (April 23) was made a national feast day in England

Technically, without a British passport or visa St George wouldn't be able to come to the UK today. However, as he was being persecuted, he could claim asylum in the UK under the 195 1 Refugee Convention
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Sounds like an olden times 'influencer'...just took a bit longer to ramp up the followers. :)

Did well though, probably would have been cancelled within 6 months these days.
 
LutonSpurs said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1914959956043825440

The absolute brick patriots who got the date wrong need to be ashamed.
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Well I got it wrong then!! Will just have to celebrate again on Monday.
(“Celebrate” being used somewhat loosely as I’m sat in our local with my husband and that’s it.).
There’s plenty of people who treat it the wrong way. It needs more people to enjoy it as a day without the bs EDL type connections.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Today, St George's Day, where we celebrate the Turkish migrant worker who never came to Britain

He'd be banned from Britain now, actually

Always fascinated at how the patron saint of England had never visited England

St George was born in Cappadocia, Turkey. He was killed by Roman Emperor Diocletian for refusing to denounce Christianity and instead worship the Roman gods in 303 AD

By the 5th century, churches were being dedicated to him in Jerusalem, Egypt, and Syria

By the 6th century, his name appeared in Christian texts across Europe, and he was revered as a military saint, a protector of soldiers and defenders of the faith

Churches in his name were established in the region, and St. George became the patron saint of many Palestinian Christian communities

During the 11th-13th century crusades, English knights fighting in the Holy Land heard stories of St George appearing in visions to help Christian armies. He was seen as a divine warrior—ideal for a nation romanticizing knighthood and bravery

St George became the patron saint in the 14th century when Edward III adopted him as the emblem of the Order of the Garter

By the 15th century, St George had eclipsed earlier English saints like St Edmund. In 1415, his feast day (April 23) was made a national feast day in England

Technically, without a British passport or visa St George wouldn't be able to come to the UK today. However, as he was being persecuted, he could claim asylum in the UK under the 195 1 Refugee Convention
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Almost everyone revered in Christianity was from overseas. Except GHod who doesn’t exist.

Saint George would bot be a good candidate for a dinghy, what with the armour and waving a great sharp lance about.
 
spurspinter1 said:
You can repeat this as many times as you like, but that simply doesn't make it true.

Do you think many people when speaking from a place of bigotry / bad intentions actually admit it when called out? "Oh yeah now you mention it, I am just being hateful against a vulnerable group of people, thanks for pointing it out!, I'll definitely change my ways!"

Edit - I did just notice you put "always", which makes it a fairer comment than I originally thought, but it's still guesswork.

Maybe JK Rowling embraces everyone for who they are and just happened to put a trans woman murdering women in the women's bathroom in her book because it's a entertaining premise, and a bunch of mouthbreathers took it too seriously. Who knows!
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Yes I did say “it doesn’t always come from a place of bigotry”. Sometimes people just disagree with you. I can’t put a number a number on what percentage are bigots compared to what number aren’t because I haven’t polled everyone, I’m sure there are plenty of people who just want to see trans people’s lives made difficult because there will always be idiots in the world unfortunately. I do genuinely think most regular people want trans people to have the same rights as everyone else, there’s just certain lines that have to be drawn as has been discussed re bathrooms and sport in particular. Even if certain posters won’t come out and say, the undercurrent of some of the posts indicates that trans athletes should be allowed to compete alongside women regardless of how unfair it is and the women should just lump it. If my impression is wrong I’ll hold my hands up.

I also take exception when people say “oh you don’t really care about women” when talking about the trans debate in sport. Again there most likely is a portion who don’t care and just want trans people to suffer but why is it out of the question that people empathise with women and don’t want certain sports to be unfair? As if anyone who thinks trans participation in sport is a step too far is a bigot rather than just wanting sport to be fair and safe.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Yes I did say “it doesn’t always come from a place of bigotry”. Sometimes people just disagree with you. I can’t put a number a number on what percentage are bigots compared to what number aren’t because I haven’t polled everyone, I’m sure there are plenty of people who just want to see trans people’s lives made difficult because there will always be idiots in the world unfortunately. I do genuinely think most regular people want trans people to have the same rights as everyone else, there’s just certain lines that have to be drawn as has been discussed re bathrooms and sport in particular. Even if certain posters won’t come out and say, the undercurrent of some of the posts indicates that trans athletes should be allowed to compete alongside women regardless of how unfair it is and the women should just lump it. If my impression is wrong I’ll hold my hands up.

I also take exception when people say “oh you don’t really care about women” when talking about the trans debate in sport. Again there most likely is a portion who don’t care and just want trans people to suffer but why is it out of the question that people empathise with women and don’t want certain sports to be unfair? As if anyone who thinks trans participation in sport is a step too far is a bigot rather than just wanting sport to be fair and safe.
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Again though, I don't think anyone is going to come out and say "I actually didn't give a flying f#ck about women's sport and actively belittled it, and I'm just now pretending it's important to me so I can maintain a bigoted but publicly acceptable stance".

This isn't you even if we don't see eye to on a lot of things. I just think it's quite easy to post the odd article about a subject that doesn't affect you directly, but then claim "Well I'm not an expert" when called out. Like a particular poster, it doesn't matter if the previous link / tweet has been dispatched by logic and rational thinking, he's already on to peddling the next bit of flimflam about whichever minority group has seemingly tinkled in his cornflakes on that particular morning.

It's an interesting subject but perhaps this thread is better for the quirky happenings of life rather than debate about whether the group with the highest suicide rate actually deserve a bit of compassion / understanding or not.

But not very much interesting has happened today yet, although I've got some lord of the rings strategy game miniatures turning up later as I am a massive nerd who buys toy soldiers instead of binge drinking these days 😁
 
spurspinter1 said:
Again though, I don't think anyone is going to come out and say "I actually didn't give a flying f#ck about women's sport and actively belittled it, and I'm just now pretending it's important to me so I can maintain a bigoted but publicly acceptable stance".

This isn't you even if we don't see eye to on a lot of things. I just think it's quite easy to post the odd article about a subject that doesn't affect you directly, but then claim "Well I'm not an expert" when called out. Like a particular poster, it doesn't matter if the previous link / tweet has been dispatched by logic and rational thinking, he's already on to peddling the next bit of flimflam about whichever minority group has seemingly tinkled in his cornflakes on that particular morning.

It's an interesting subject but perhaps this thread is better for the quirky happenings of life rather than debate about whether the group with the highest suicide rate actually deserve a bit of compassion / understanding or not.

But not very much interesting has happened today yet, although I've got some lord of the rings strategy game miniatures turning up later as I am a massive nerd who buys toy soldiers instead of binge drinking these days 😁
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I’ll happily admit I prefer watching men’s sport to women’s sport. I’ll also happily admit I disagree that women deserve equal pay in certain sports, particularly where the men generate more interest and revenue than their female counterparts such as football. But I still enjoy women’s sport, tennis in particular as I’m a big tennis fan. I want to see safe and fair competition. I can’t speak for everyone, but that’s just my view. There are countless examples where trans woman now hold records in women’s sports where it’s clear they have an advantage, I don’t see how that is fair. I do also think trans people and people advocating for them (like Stonewall) would benefit by meeting people in the middle when it comes to debates like this. Even if they are disappointed because they can’t compete, admitting they hold an advantage instead of pretending they don’t would help their cause. You don’t have to be an expert in biology to see that trans athletes in certain sports have an unfair disadvantage over biological women. To keep saying they don’t just turns people off IMO.

I do agree with you that a certain percentage don’t care about women’s sport at all and just use it as an excuse to bash trans people. Impossible to measure how many people feel that way but it would be unfair to lump everyone in the same box as those people just as it would be unfair to lump all trans people in the same box as those sending death threats to JK Rowling as I’m sure it’s a small percentage of trans people.
 
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