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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
SylDave
Jason Dozzell
If you ask me if you can’t see a clear advantage with the naked eye while the replay has been paused at the correct moment the goal should stand, Chelsea have had a goal disallowed in the game being played now because half a boot was over this mystical imposed line.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Maybe fans should not be so quick into reading what he says and putting their own judgement on what They think he means.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
And thank GHod for that.
Seedy Ron
Jimmy Neighbour
This. That's what the Yanks do with it I think. Wouldn't take forever either.
SylDave
Jason Dozzell
Looking back over the years the controversy surrounding the wrong offside decisions was always clear and obvious from the tv pundits, they were never super imposing lines on the screen and taking three minutes to reach a conclusion, sometimes in a real close call they would hold opposing views but that’s life, however unfortunately in 2019 we live in a society that wants to take any element of human error and common sense away and make it as simple as black or white, this is why it will never happen like this as in the rule makers twisted minds they don’t want anything to be open to interpretation.
fernadez
Dean Austin
That's not the fans responsibility though, that's the point. People en mass are idiots which is why mob mentality exists.
If your job in part relies on the good will of the masses, part of your job is to pander to them. If you don't like it, go manage a smaller team with no fans.
I think our fundamental problem as a club is that Poch exceeded expectations in his first 3 years and, just when we needed an extra push to take us to the next level (i.e. consistent title challengers/winners), he and the team got pulled back instead (i.e. 2 years at Wembley and a lack of investment in the squad), leading to a reverse in momentum for the last 2 seasons. Now, after 5 years of always being 'the bridesmaid', we've finally got the little push we needed (in the form of a new stadium and 3 good signings), but it seems too little too late (for now) - the 2 years of backward momentum have left at least 4 starting players wanting to leave this summer and, even ignoring that, our squad still isn't good enough to challenge City / Liverpool for the league. (Especially with all 3 of our new signings having injury issues).
So we're left with a manager and squad that's been at the club for an unusually long time, on the cusp of winning trophies but always falling short, coming off 2 seasons of backward momentum, with a number of starting players wanting to leave, and with City and Liverpool dominant at the top of the league. And whilst I think fans always tend to focus on the things that are more immediate and tangible - i.e. formation and team selection - and I do share everyone's dislike of the diamond - personally I think the more fundamental, deep-rooted issue is that group is just struggling to feel committed / motivated / confident because of all of the above. Which in turn frustrates Poch, and creates a negative psychological cycle around the club. All of which, as painful as it is for fans (including me), is understandable IMO, and I think probably without immediate solution - it's just inherent in the herculean task of trying to break into the elite against 5 richer clubs, all whilst trying to build an expensive new stadium.
Could Poch be performing better, and be more positive in the media, despite these circumstances? Of course he could. But I can forgive him that he isn't, after everything he's achieved for the club to date. And personally I think that the minority of fans who now underplay his achievement to date, and/or don't show any forgiveness for his imperfections despite what he's achieved, give Spurs fans a bad name and don't deserve to experience the club having any success at all. But I do still fear that the natural life cycle of this group might be coming to an end, and that there just isn't much that can be done about it. But even if that ends up being the case, Poch and these players have still done a brilliant job to take us up a level, and will have left us with a financial foundation from which I think a new group of staff and players could genuinely come in and make us title winners in the next few years.
Let's hope I'm wrong and that Poch and the players manage to eke out another successful season, and kick on even further next year.
(But the diamond is still brick.)
So we're left with a manager and squad that's been at the club for an unusually long time, on the cusp of winning trophies but always falling short, coming off 2 seasons of backward momentum, with a number of starting players wanting to leave, and with City and Liverpool dominant at the top of the league. And whilst I think fans always tend to focus on the things that are more immediate and tangible - i.e. formation and team selection - and I do share everyone's dislike of the diamond - personally I think the more fundamental, deep-rooted issue is that group is just struggling to feel committed / motivated / confident because of all of the above. Which in turn frustrates Poch, and creates a negative psychological cycle around the club. All of which, as painful as it is for fans (including me), is understandable IMO, and I think probably without immediate solution - it's just inherent in the herculean task of trying to break into the elite against 5 richer clubs, all whilst trying to build an expensive new stadium.
Could Poch be performing better, and be more positive in the media, despite these circumstances? Of course he could. But I can forgive him that he isn't, after everything he's achieved for the club to date. And personally I think that the minority of fans who now underplay his achievement to date, and/or don't show any forgiveness for his imperfections despite what he's achieved, give Spurs fans a bad name and don't deserve to experience the club having any success at all. But I do still fear that the natural life cycle of this group might be coming to an end, and that there just isn't much that can be done about it. But even if that ends up being the case, Poch and these players have still done a brilliant job to take us up a level, and will have left us with a financial foundation from which I think a new group of staff and players could genuinely come in and make us title winners in the next few years.
Let's hope I'm wrong and that Poch and the players manage to eke out another successful season, and kick on even further next year.
(But the diamond is still brick.)
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
arsenal?
Bullet
Andy Thompson
This. Great post Trevor.
The current performances are reaping what Spurs sowed 2 years ago. The chickens have come home to roost, and me no like chikkin.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Do you honestly think players aren't sitting there thinking "WTF?" when he's saying stuff like "I'm not the manager", "I might have left after the CL if we won it", "This isn't the best squad I've had". They're human too and like Rose when he echoed what a lot of fans thought of our transfer policy, the players will wonder if the manager is committed and if he rates them.
It doesn't matter two fudges what he says to them in private after that. If it's a contradictory message, they'll think he could be two faced. If it's the same message, they'll probably think he's a bit of a clam. The image he is projecting in public is very, very important because it's what he's actually saying (i.e. he's not being taken out of context or misquoted) and it gives the media ammunition to build a narrative which can very quickly snowball and become a self fulfilling prophecy.
I'm not turning on Poch because of results. He has done enough at this club to earn a 10 year contract if he wants it and I would stand by that now. However, I don't get the sense that he wants it or that he is conducting himself in the right way. The rumblings behind the scenes (players not signing contracts, players being inexplicably dropped, Trippier's utterances etc.) and the abject performances suggest to me that he's losing at least some of the players.
Bullet
Andy Thompson
Yesterday did not pan out, but for a few seconds we were deservedly 2-0 up and in control. We were not as bad as being made out.
The commentators said that Leicester always score at home, they are a decent side being tipped for top 6 this year.
Could be a LOT worse. I just watched a weak Man United lose to West Ham. They sold Lukaku. Martial is out with a thigh injury. Wonderboy Greenwood has tonsilitis. Wonderlad Rashford pulled up with a thigh injury. So up front they had a mess of Lingard, Mata, James...
Cheatski lost due to VAR also.
Gooners snatched a late winner against a terrible Villa side and I'm told VAR did not give a penalty against them for handball.
Our fight this year (like last year) is with Utd, Cheatski, Gooners... we are in OK position.
But we could really have done with Lo Celso and Sessegnon (Clarke) contributing... we made zero transfers last year, and only have Ndombele newly on the pitch after 2 years of trading, far too stagnant.
The commentators said that Leicester always score at home, they are a decent side being tipped for top 6 this year.
Could be a LOT worse. I just watched a weak Man United lose to West Ham. They sold Lukaku. Martial is out with a thigh injury. Wonderboy Greenwood has tonsilitis. Wonderlad Rashford pulled up with a thigh injury. So up front they had a mess of Lingard, Mata, James...
Cheatski lost due to VAR also.
Gooners snatched a late winner against a terrible Villa side and I'm told VAR did not give a penalty against them for handball.
Our fight this year (like last year) is with Utd, Cheatski, Gooners... we are in OK position.
But we could really have done with Lo Celso and Sessegnon (Clarke) contributing... we made zero transfers last year, and only have Ndombele newly on the pitch after 2 years of trading, far too stagnant.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
We actually weren't bad for much of yesterday and I think people would he hard pressed to argue that we were. But we conceded a lead again. We left in two goals again. We look soft when teams come at us. Our defence is a pale imitation of what it was (and I don't mean just the defence, I mean how we defend as a team). Two years ago and three years ago, we rarely looked like being beaten. This season, we got beat at home to a dreadful Saudi Sportswashing Machine team and we'll lose more soft games if we continue like this. Similar to last season.
I remember watching us beat Chelsea at the Lane 2-0 the year they won the league and Alli scored two. I remember being 2-0 up and them coming at us in waves and not being worried much because we looked solid. I haven't seen that solidity for almost two years. That's why we are losing so many games and the manager isn't addressing it.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
We were a smaller team six seasons ago. Then this bloke called Mauricio Pochettino showed up and brought us back to the status -and place- we used to enjoy.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Oh but be did try. He tried very fudging hard. He wanted Alderweireld, Rose and Wanyama out two seasons ago. He wanted Eriksen sorted two seasons ago. Toby held out for stupid money having agreed a contract with us before the VVD move, Rose stayed because Walker forced it and Poch wisely didn’t want to lose both in one season, Wanyama didn’t leave either. Dembele -the much lover Moose- also stuck around longer than he wanted (into last season) when the decent thing would’ve been to go to China in the summer early and allow us to bring in his replacement! Of course it is his right, and I am not slagging him off, I am pointing out what Poch has been trying to do for 24 months and getting blocked out of. And who will sign for us when Dembele is playing? When Toby is playing? Where is their path? Unless young they are not going to sign!!!!!
Sanchez was bought to replace Toby, yet Toby is still here, playing out his deal. He isn’t staying and neither should he!!!! If I was Poch I wouldn’t trust him either! Yet he cannot afford to leave seasoned pros on the bench and out of the squads because the likes of Toby and Jan are the new Kabouls. And you cannot have that in the dressing room!!!
So it is so, so easy to say what Poch hasn’t done and isn’t doing when it is quite the opposite.
We are essentially facing a far higher quality version of 2015 IMO. We have several veterans running down their deals/unable to do what Poch wants week in week out. We are in transition once more but this time Poch has to manage expectations except it is too late for that. We must finish in the top 4 and thanks to Chelsea and Utd, I think we will. This will be uncomfortable but we must back Poch and also recognise the deck he is dealing with.
I must say too, if that ludicrous VAR does not happen yesterday we are looking fine. If we get the pen we should’ve against City, we are fine.
I concede that we have to be worried about losing leads, it is not good. Yesterday? A learning curve because it is the first time VAR has royally fudged us and we need to deal with it better. We will learn.
Have some fudging faith folks. Pochettino has earned the right to that.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
Maybe he can’t handle the pressure/expectations now?
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Steff, you were one of the most vocal after that summer window IIRC saying that Poch had been backed by the club and that they HAD been brave...are you now saying the club didn't back Poch at the time?
Why can he not afford to do this actually, if they aren't playing well enough etc? 1 - if he is the good manager he is meant to be players play on merit and sign for the club 'to train' before he decides who has trained well etc before picking his team? 2 - Do you not see how that description actually makes Poch look weak given this is now his team and he has far more control - in theory - than when he joined? 3 - also Poch HAS done this with Alderwiereld the season before last when Sanchez was constantly picked ahead of Alderwiereld! So when did Jan and Toby become the Kabouls and why?? Also, the purpose of buying Sanchez is so we have SQUAD of choice centre backs to use. The fact that Toby is still having to be used says as much about Sanchez' lack of improvement under Poch as anything about Toby..
Steff, i think you are ignoring quite a few things here and whilst it's good to be positive you have to ask WHY have we become so stale over the last year, which actually started imo after that historic win at Stamford Bridge in April 2018 - we have been creaking since then and scraped top 4 both times since then, whenb top 4 should have been givens long before the end.
Either this 'transition' hasn't gone well because Levy/the board have broken their promises [remember all that 'being brave' stuff??] or Poch himself has hit a brick wall with regards to how much his methods are focused on young-ish players being able to run and run more than the opposition and less on being able to out-smart the opposition.
You also cannot say that his public utterances haven't been short of shocking as @DeanoAustin, @Nigeyman and others have eloquently pointed out and it just might be that players - who are human after all - think, why should i bust my balls for someone who:
a) might leave any minute anyway
b) plays certain players no matter how they play, e.g. Alli, Trippier, Son or whatever misdemeanour they do, e.g. Lloris
c) doesn't think we are that good - see yesterday's quotes
d) now calls us out in public - see 'not following the plan' quotes
e) thinks trying to win domestic cups 'is just for egos'
The writing on the wall doesn't look good does it? The sad thing is it's mostly self-inflicted, and if we couldn't do the changes needed in summer 2018 - when we had time and things were clearer - what makes you think we'll be able to do such a much bigger and more desperately needed change in a much shorter timespan?
StephenH
David Ginola
it sounds like he's has had to learn on the job regarding squad evolution. That must be very tough on him and very stressful!
They say a ’change is as good as a rest’ maybe it would be good for him to have a change of working environment and that is what we are seeing with his mood the August?
surly a director of football would have helped?
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glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
@BrainOfLevy i know we've discussed the whole concept of Poch's lack of rotation in the past, which you felt was more a case of "getting minutes into them"...i would love your thoughts on this now. I still think we are seeing the negative consequences of it now as the players barely look physically capable to gtackle well with any conviction, let alone press.
Happy to be given positive vibes with an alternative view, because it's all feels so brick now - and has for months, odd CL game aside..
Happy to be given positive vibes with an alternative view, because it's all feels so brick now - and has for months, odd CL game aside..