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Are we now permanently locked out of the CL?

Spur of the moment

Spur of the moment

Frederic Kanoute
Apologies if there is already a thread on this topic buried somewhere in the bowels of GG.

Looking at the top four in the PL table today it has an even more ominous look about it than usual with Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U and Man C opening up an ever widening gap between themselves and the chasing group, Liverpool, Southampton and ourselves.

It's now feeling increasingly like what's taking place is the permanent lock-out that many have feared. In previous seasons it's been possible for the odd rogue like ourselves to sneak in under the radar. But the incremental power of the CL qualifiers season after season to attract the top players through massive transfer fees, mind-boggling pay packets and a greater prospect of trophies and/or CL qualification seems inexorably to be enabling the Big Four to tighten their grip to a stranglehold.

FFP, it would seem, is succeeding in crystallising a permanently uneven playing field, the polar opposite of what it was claimed was the intended outcome, though for sure many saw right through it from the outset.

My question therefore is, do you agree that now is the moment when the drawbridge is effectively been pulled up for the last time? Even with a new stadium on the horizon, have we not already missed the boat? Will we ever have a realistic chance other than through the tortuous route of the Europa Cup of breaking into that gargantuan power elite, or are we now permanently locked outside and left aspiring at best to the dreaded tyranny of the Thursday/Sunday brickhole?
 
Mumorn said:
We're closer to 4th place than City are to 1st..
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But city will spend yet again brick loads of money on players who will ultimately ally make them a better side

The only sides we could catch were / are united and arse as their still some players away from being they sides they have ambitions to be

Chelsea will add and lose a couple a season now to keep the squad fresh

City will just spend whatever they want

Arsene Wenger will get dillsuional again about who arsenal really need IMO... And forget to sign the solid defensive players and probably sign more attcking midfielders

United will struggle to buy enough defenders and will lost a should have strikers too so will still have a lot to buy in

But they will all have champions league money and the attraction that comes with it
 
I don't really care to be honest. Let's say we reached Arsenal's level, always in the Champions League. Then we'd just get frustrated that we're never gonna be Real Madrid/Barca/Bayern. And if we became as good as those teams, it'd be the end of the world if we finished 3rd in the league and lost a few games. You can't win haha.

We've won the league twice in our history, but we are a good cup team (historically). So I just hope we can win some cups, play some decent football and produce our own players. If we get into the Champions League, we'll have a blast like we did last time. If we don't though, we should give the Europa a good crack (assuming we qualify).
 
No. But I think it is a huge shame we didn't take the (better) chances when we had them.

This year was always transitional and provided we keep Pochettino, Kane, Lloris, Eriksen then we will start next season stronger and wiser.

Liverpool, Spurs, Emirates Marketing Project, Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea. Only Arsenal have finished top four every year since 2009.... It's still open.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Apologies if there is already a thread on this topic buried somewhere in the bowels of GG.

Looking at the top four in the PL table today it has an even more ominous look about it than usual with Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U and Man C opening up an ever widening gap between themselves and the chasing group, Liverpool, Southampton and ourselves.

It's now feeling increasingly like what's taking place is the permanent lock-out that many have feared. In previous seasons it's been possible for the odd rogue like ourselves to sneak in under the radar. But the incremental power of the CL qualifiers season after season to attract the top players through massive transfer fees, mind-boggling pay packets and a greater prospect of trophies and/or CL qualification seems inexorably to be enabling the Big Four to tighten their grip to a stranglehold.

FFP, it would seem, is succeeding in crystallising a permanently uneven playing field, the polar opposite of what it was claimed was the intended outcome, though for sure many saw right through it from the outset.

My question therefore is, do you agree that now is the moment when the drawbridge is effectively been pulled up for the last time? Even with a new stadium on the horizon, have we not already missed the boat? Will we ever have a realistic chance other than through the tortuous route of the Europa Cup of breaking into that gargantuan power elite, or are we now permanently locked outside and left aspiring at best to the dreaded tyranny of the Thursday/Sunday crudhole?
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Nope. We are just at the beginning of the curve. We have a good young team. If we can keep them together and add some quality, and if we have a bit of luck, we can finish top four again. We need to be realistic though, there are five teams with far bigger budgets that us and we need two of them to fudge up or us to play well above our level for us to qualify for the Champions Leage.
 
milo said:
Nope. We are just at the beginning of the curve. We have a good young team. If we can keep them together and add some quality, and if we have a bit of luck, we can finish top four again. We need to be realistic though, there are five teams with far bigger budgets that us and we need two of them to fudge up or us to play well above our level for us to qualify for the Champions Leage.
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There are three teams with bigger budgets than Arsenal, significantly so in previous seasons, and they normally out perform at least one of them.

Budgets will rule us out of the title race but there will always be the opportunity to get into that top four I really do think that.
 
No real difference this year to others. Most years one of the big 4 have a dip, sometimes 2 teams and sometimes an average club like Liverpool or us over-perform driven often by a single world-class season by one player.

The status quo remains exactly that.
 
I do find this a little funny. It's literally only 5 years since "The Big Four" meant Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. They were The Sky Four, the eternal quartet, a status quo carved in granite. And people on message boards suspiciously similar to this one insisted that nothing would ever change. That no team could break into that exclusive domain.

And then we did. Before Emirates Marketing Project.

That's five years ago. It's not ancient history. And you know what... the billionaire owners can successfully stack the deck, but even then there's no guarantees. I still say Emirates Marketing Project will be mid-table again by the end of this decade. This rollercoaster they are on is a hell of a rush for the fans but I don't think it's remotely sustainable. Nobody can predict the future; but one thing I have learnt in my time on the planet is that the person who predicts "nothing will change" is pretty much always wrong.
 
there will always be the odd years where teams do badly for a variety of reasons.
i like it that Emirates Marketing Project has gate crashed the traditional sky four's party - it adds competition, volatility and desperation and that can bode well for a new challenger.

staying there is another matter though - and here i think that our academy, and football philosphy focused on youth development will help provide a strong base to continue to challenge for top four and stay there.
 
An excellent question. I'd say it's possible but there will always be anomalies...generally speaking, however, money will talk louder than anything.

Of course, I'd abstract it further and say do we actually give a brick if all that is going to be about is money and buying your way in time and time again with a slew of mercenaries who kiss the cheque, sorry, badge with the empty, hollow sound of a pound coin dropping in an echo chamber.

Personally, and I've said this before, if we sell and 'oligarch/shiekh' it, a part of my love will die. One of the things which has made us so special is HOW we've done it. With flair, surprises and moments of soaring glory. Our current set-up, the way Poch is going, the way the club is going, the players we are fielding, are ALL making me happier than I have felt in years because there is real PRIDE in the shirt with many of those young men. I BELIEVE it. I FEEL it. To replace them with big money just to get in the CL? No thanks. fudge THAT! I'd rather get there once every decade and make at least the last 8 than 15 years in a row and nearly always bomb out before the quarters! Yup. Quote me ;-)
 
The difference between the likes of Chelsea, ManCity, ManU, Arsenal, Liverpool and us is that they are aiming for league title while we are still aiming for 4th place for the last 10 years or so. We only seems to strengthen the squad with the aim for finishing in 4th. I have always felt that if we want to finish in top 4, we need to aim higher, which means we should aim for the no.1 spot.
 
Apart from halfway through last season Liverpool are only aiming for top 4. They were lucky to remain in the hunt till the last week.... we have had far better teams than they did but not at a time where United, City, Chelsea, Everton and their other rivals for top four, Spurs, were all in significant transition.

Arsenal have clearly been too good for fifth, too poor for first since their so called invincibles . Their aim is top three not first.
 
If we had a star player emerge like Bale or Suarez and kept the bulk of our key players fit like Liverpool last year we could fluke our way into the title race. But we do not have the resources to make that a realistic goal in the short term. It is all about steps and realistically finishing third next year would be a tough tough challenge. That's a more helpful aim.

However one thing we have to do is get out of the negative mindset about going to a rival top 6 stadium. That has been in decline since Redknapp and this season has been unacceptable.
 
New stadium will change all of this - give us the resources to compete with some of these bigger clubs in terms of transfer fees. The goons have two 40 million pound players on their team, Chelsea, United and City have spent the GDP of a small country on players. We are a club that is very prudent financially and it has done us pretty well, unearthing some gems here and there and allowing us some decent runs. However I feel that the only way we consistently compete is with this new stadium which gives us financial firepower.
 
I think Arsenal and United are on downward curves (Wenger era coming to an end/United's poor squad), whilst us and Liverpool are on upward ones, so that gap will keep shrinking IMO. The 2 doped teams are out of touch till something happens with their ownership.

CL qualification from the EL is a curveball that could help us. I do think we could win the EL in the next few seasons
 
I am sorry but I am going to be negative, we wasted the Bale money massively, if you look at the teams above us would Mason, Townsend, Bentaleb and Chadli have got so much game time ? no chance, we have bought so poorly, somebody mentioned earlier that stadium revenue will make the difference, I hope so.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think Arsenal and United are on downward curves (Wenger era coming to an end/United's poor squad), whilst us and Liverpool are on upward ones, so that gap will keep shrinking IMO. The 2 doped teams are out of touch till something happens with their ownership.

CL qualification from the EL is a curveball that could help us. I do think we could win the EL in the next few seasons
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Take out Felaini and UTD are directionless, but he is a means to an end until they spend mega big in the summer.
 
I think I'd rather win a trophy every year than finish top 4 (Champions would be different of course). The problem however with this is that football is about money... If we cannot retain our best players due to money then it just gets boring. I've particularly loved this season for the way we've bought in the academy players, that and Kane's emergence has been a real breath of fresh air.

Of course being in the ECL is very special but it's not the be all and end all imo.
 
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